I may have cracked it- What Rafa sees in Gareth Barry

[JohnDoe]

Remember the line up we started the season with?

During last summer Rafa talked about Gerrard being accommodated in the middle and taking measures to prepare for it.

I remember it very well.

This is how we started the season in the league

Reina
Finnan Carragher Agger Arbeloa
Pennant Alonso Gerrard Riise
Kuyt Torres

Now the obvious weak link here is Riise. Rafa wanted Gerrard to play in the middle but couldn't trust Babel or Benayoun to responsibly cover for his runs forward. So he put a more "solid" player instead. The freedom it gave Gerrard was at the expense of weakening one of our flanks when going forward.

Now imagine Barry there. Good crosser, strong tackler, good passer, not the quickest but covers a lot of ground and has great stamina. You could say he's a Riise type player but obviously A LOT better in every way possible. He can also get in the middle when necessary and allow Gerrard a more advanced role in some periods of the game.

Yes, there is a change of formation here, but buying Barry also gives us the opportunity to strengthen the middle when playing 4-2-3-1. Right now we have 3 experienced CM's while Lucas and Plessis are still kids. One injury to Alonso or Mascherano almost forces us to go back to 4-4-2.

We also have no real alternatives to Mascherano. If he's injured, we have no DM except for Plessis in the squad.

Barry can comfortably cover for a Mascherano injury and act as a midfield destroyer but he's also capable of replacing Alonso in games where a "passmaster" is not needed or wouldn't be as effective as someone like Barry. Games against the Bolton's, the Birmingham's or the Blackburn's for example.

Mascherano
Gerrard Barry
Winger Torres Winger

One holding midfield. Two midfielders who compliment each other in terms of balance (Barry can roam to the left easily from that position while Gerrard does so on the right). Here, Barry does what he does at Villa today. The left sided CM in a 4-3-3.

And then there's the third point I want to make.

Barry can cover the left back position.

Rafa is buying a right back, that's a certainty. However, I'm not as certain that he's buying a left back AND Gareth Barry.

We have Aurelio who Rafa rates, we've got Arbeloa who can play there and we have Insua who's coming through. All of them can play there yet you can't point to one of them and say "this guy will make the LB position his own". Aurelio is injury prone, Arbeloa is a bit inconsistent and he covers the RB position as well, while Insua is just starting to get into the first team squad.

So Barry can cover that position in a case of emergency while it still allows us to play any formation Rafa can imagine.

By this logic, there is no need to sell Alonso. He will still be needed. We're getting a player who fits nicely in a 4-4-2 and a 4-3-3 and we're giving Babel (at LW) and Insua (at LB) a chance to make their positions their own within the year, while still strengthening the middle and the left side with just one signing.

Could I be wrong? Definitely.

Could Rafa be a ****ing genius? Definitely.

[JohnDoe]

Oops. Can someone move this to the Liverpool FC forum and not transfer speculation?

[Dirk07]

Remember the line up we started the season with?

During last summer Rafa talked about Gerrard being accommodated in the middle and taking measures to prepare for it.

I remember it very well.

This is how we started the season in the league

Reina
Finnan Carragher Agger Arbeloa
Pennant Alonso Gerrard Riise
Kuyt Torres

Now the obvious weak link here is Riise. Rafa wanted Gerrard to play in the middle but couldn't trust Babel or Benayoun to responsibly cover for his runs forward. So he put a more "solid" player instead. The freedom it gave Gerrard was at the expense of weakening one of our flanks when going forward.

Now imagine Barry there. Good crosser, strong tackler, good passer, not the quickest but covers a lot of ground and has great stamina. You could say he's a Riise type player but obviously A LOT better in every way possible. He can also get in the middle when necessary and allow Gerrard a more advanced role in some periods of the game.

Yes, there is a change of formation here, but buying Barry also gives us the opportunity to strengthen the middle when playing 4-2-3-1. Right now we have 3 experienced CM's while Lucas and Plessis are still kids. One injury to Alonso or Mascherano almost forces us to go back to 4-4-2.

We also have no real alternatives to Mascherano. If he's injured, we have no DM except for Plessis in the squad.

Barry can comfortably cover for a Mascherano injury and act as a midfield destroyer but he's also capable of replacing Alonso in games where a "passmaster" is not needed or wouldn't be as effective as someone like Barry. Games against the Bolton's, the Birmingham's or the Blackburn's for example.

Mascherano
Gerrard Barry
Winger Torres Winger

One holding midfield. Two midfielders who compliment each other in terms of balance (Barry can roam to the left easily from that position while Gerrard does so on the right). Here, Barry does what he does at Villa today. The left sided CM in a 4-3-3.

And then there's the third point I want to make.

Barry can cover the left back position.

Rafa is buying a right back, that's a certainty. However, I'm not as certain that he's buying a left back AND Gareth Barry.

We have Aurelio who Rafa rates, we've got Arbeloa who can play there and we have Insua who's coming through. All of them can play there yet you can't point to one of them and say "this guy will make the LB position his own". Aurelio is injury prone, Arbeloa is a bit inconsistent and he covers the RB position as well, while Insua is just starting to get into the first team squad.

So Barry can cover that position in a case of emergency while it still allows us to play any formation Rafa can imagine.

By this logic, there is no need to sell Alonso. He will still be needed. We're getting a player who fits nicely in a 4-4-2 and a 4-3-3 and we're giving Babel (at LW) and Insua (at LB) a chance to make their positions their own within the year, while still strengthening the middle and the left side with just one signing.

Could I be wrong? Definitely.

Could Rafa be a ****ing genius? Definitely.

I think you could be spot on, good post!

[Kenneth]

Great, a 12m utility player.

[JohnDoe]

Great, a 12m utility player.

I don't think that makes him a utility player.
I see your point, but signing Barry actually gives us a stronger 1st team and it gives Gerrard more freedom in a 4-4-2.

Instead of:
Pennant-Alonso-Gerrard-Riise

We can have something like:
Bentley-Alonso-Gerrard-Barry

Which is much much stronger.

[Dirk07]

taking the 12m to one side..........

a good cb
a good lb
a good lm
a good dm

plus he helps keep a british core to the first team and has an excellent work ethic

sounds like a rafa type of player to me, I also think if we play 442 he would be an excellent option on the left to give SG less responsiblity coming from the middle as JonDoe's point states

[Marky]

Barry is criminally underrated, he's a quality player in his peak years.

He would improve our team.

I'm all for him signing.

[cannotmakeit]

Nah you talk too much sense. The "unless we only buy 25m players we are going backwards and sack Rafa" brigade not not going to accept this.

[DannyMan2006]

I don't think Barry being a utility player would do him any good. He'd never get a regular place in the England first XI.

He is being brought in to replace Alonso, who it seems can not cut it in the hustle and bustle of the Premier League.

Barry in for £10m, Alonso out for £15m. Now that is a good deal. No question Alonso is the better player when he gets time and space, but he very rarely gets this.

[JohnDoe]

I don't think Barry being a utility player would do him any good. He'd never get a regular place in the England first XI.

He is being brought in to replace Alonso, who it seems can not cut it in the hustle and bustle of the Premier League.

Barry in for £10m, Alonso out for £15m. Now that is a good deal. No question Alonso is the better player when he gets time and space, but he very rarely gets this.

I know this is the general consensus. It makes more sense that Alonso is leaving, but both him and his agent has come out and said he's not leaving. I think at this point of the season, he would have known if Rafa wanted to sell him.

I don't think this will make him a utility player. A "possibilities" player, for sure.

[Guest]

Good post mate. But I don't think Rafa will be using Barry on the left of a 4-4-2. I think the formation where we are most stable is the one being used right now. I can see us change it from time to time ... Barry is there primarily to challenge in CM, as I don't think Alonso will be going too.

But there's still this element, where Barry can play there and offers versatility. Could even play at left back !

[Parm]

taking the 12m to one side..........

a good cb
a good lb
a good lm
a good dm

plus he helps keep a british core to the first team and has an excellent work ethic

sounds like a rafa type of player to me, I also think if we play 442 he would be an excellent option on the left to give SG less responsiblity coming from the middle as JonDoe's point states

fair point, and if we keep Xabi, then the quality of our squad is improved and gives us superb options.

[Skillz]

Remember the line up we started the season with?

During last summer Rafa talked about Gerrard being accommodated in the middle and taking measures to prepare for it.

I remember it very well.

This is how we started the season in the league

Reina
Finnan Carragher Agger Arbeloa
Pennant Alonso Gerrard Riise
Kuyt Torres

Now the obvious weak link here is Riise. Rafa wanted Gerrard to play in the middle but couldn't trust Babel or Benayoun to responsibly cover for his runs forward. So he put a more "solid" player instead. The freedom it gave Gerrard was at the expense of weakening one of our flanks when going forward.

Now imagine Barry there. Good crosser, strong tackler, good passer, not the quickest but covers a lot of ground and has great stamina. You could say he's a Riise type player but obviously A LOT better in every way possible. He can also get in the middle when necessary and allow Gerrard a more advanced role in some periods of the game.

Yes, there is a change of formation here, but buying Barry also gives us the opportunity to strengthen the middle when playing 4-2-3-1. Right now we have 3 experienced CM's while Lucas and Plessis are still kids. One injury to Alonso or Mascherano almost forces us to go back to 4-4-2.

We also have no real alternatives to Mascherano. If he's injured, we have no DM except for Plessis in the squad.

Barry can comfortably cover for a Mascherano injury and act as a midfield destroyer but he's also capable of replacing Alonso in games where a "passmaster" is not needed or wouldn't be as effective as someone like Barry. Games against the Bolton's, the Birmingham's or the Blackburn's for example.

Mascherano
Gerrard Barry
Winger Torres Winger

One holding midfield. Two midfielders who compliment each other in terms of balance (Barry can roam to the left easily from that position while Gerrard does so on the right). Here, Barry does what he does at Villa today. The left sided CM in a 4-3-3.

And then there's the third point I want to make.

Barry can cover the left back position.

Rafa is buying a right back, that's a certainty. However, I'm not as certain that he's buying a left back AND Gareth Barry.

We have Aurelio who Rafa rates, we've got Arbeloa who can play there and we have Insua who's coming through. All of them can play there yet you can't point to one of them and say "this guy will make the LB position his own". Aurelio is injury prone, Arbeloa is a bit inconsistent and he covers the RB position as well, while Insua is just starting to get into the first team squad.

So Barry can cover that position in a case of emergency while it still allows us to play any formation Rafa can imagine.

By this logic, there is no need to sell Alonso. He will still be needed. We're getting a player who fits nicely in a 4-4-2 and a 4-3-3 and we're giving Babel (at LW) and Insua (at LB) a chance to make their positions their own within the year, while still strengthening the middle and the left side with just one signing.

Could I be wrong? Definitely.

Could Rafa be a ****ing genius? Definitely.

Really good post this. I was thinking about our dilemma with SG today, in that against the better/top sides this formation often leaves both SG and Torres very exposed. The first half on Wednesday being the perfect example.

This made me think about Barry and the possible sale of Xabi and came to the conclusion that we will play a lot of 4-3-3 although it will be a typical fluid system in true Rafa style.

Reading your post, which has gone into greater detail, has made feel pretty confortable. If Xabi is going I suspect we will make a profit, so more cash for Silva and Eto'o

[JohnDoe]

Good post mate. But I don't think Rafa will be using Barry on the left of a 4-4-2. I think the formation where we are most stable is the one being used right now. I can see us change it from time to time ... Barry is there primarily to challenge in CM, as I don't think Alonso will be going too.

But there's still this element, where Barry can play there and offers versatility. Could even play at left back !

I'll give you an example and I'm including Bentley because Rafa has made it obvious he's interested in him.

The front 6 of:
Torres
Babel
Bentley
Gerrard
Barry
Alonso or Mascherano

Can be organized as both a 4-3-3 and a 4-4-2, depending on Rafa's mood, without making one substitution.

Say we start the match in a 4-3-3 and concede a goal. Bang, Rafa throws Babel up front, moves Barry left and pulls Gerrard a bit back. We get another striker without making a single change in personnel.

[Dhav]

I don't think Barry being a utility player would do him any good. He'd never get a regular place in the England first XI.

He is being brought in to replace Alonso, who it seems can not cut it in the hustle and bustle of the Premier League.

Barry in for £10m, Alonso out for £15m. Now that is a good deal. No question Alonso is the better player when he gets time and space, but he very rarely gets this.

the problem is that Alonso is the better player, so although we may make money out of this deal (though to be honest I dont see Villa selling for £10m) what we're doing is trading down. Now I accept the points that Xabi's been off form, I also agree that the time he is given on the ball by opponents is less than what it used to be and this affects the influence he is able to have on the game. But Xabi at his best is much better than Bary IMO, and that is where I have the problem. I'd not be happy with him replacing Xabi. I'd rather get Flamini to be honest, if that were at all possible, which it probably isn't.