To spend or not to spend

[Dero]

Ok, seeing as we don't seem to have massive amounts of cash to make (big name) signings and a number of people here have been critical of the players we have been linked with a question has formed in the slush in my cranium laughingly referred to as my brain.

Would you rather we go into the new season with basically the same squad as we finished the season with therefore saving the whole seasons transfer budget, (effectively writing off this season) then next summer make the two or three "world class" signings next year?
or
would you rather make slight progress year after year, with signing players who are good but not considered "world class" yet?

Personally I don't think Rafa would be able to write off a season at this stage maybe if it was his 2nd year or we had owners with absolutely no inclination to bring in someone else and only with 100% of the supporters behind him.

I am not trying to have a go at anyone but just wanting to know what the people upset over some of the signings/potential signings and the people that like the idea of "mediocre" signings think.

I would have made this a poll but i'm to thick

[Guest]

Sign mediocre players for 5 years, then use the money for a mammoth transfer in 5 years. Like the one who will make DJS cream in his pants.

[Red Chilli]

Ok, seeing as we don't seem to have massive amounts of cash to make (big name) signings and a number of people here have been critical of the players we have been linked with a question has formed in the slush in my cranium laughingly referred to as my brain.

Would you rather we go into the new season with basically the same squad as we finished the season with therefore saving the whole seasons transfer budget, (effectively writing off this season) then next summer make the two or three "world class" signings next year?
or
would you rather make slight progress year after year, with signing players who are good but not considered "world class" yet?

Personally I don't think Rafa would be able to write off a season at this stage maybe if it was his 2nd year or we had owners with absolutely no inclination to bring in someone else and only with 100% of the supporters behind him.

I am not trying to have a go at anyone but just wanting to know what the people upset over some of the signings/potential signings and the people that like the idea of "mediocre" signings think.

I would have made this a poll but i'm to thick

Rather than sign mediocre players for a few million I'd rather give youth a chance wit likes of Nemeth and Spearing.

[dww]

I don't think we can write off a season in the way you describe. however I do think that focussing on £20m players is both a red herring and a bit of a cop out. How many of the top PL players last year were actually bought for £20m+? I'm not sure that as many as people make out have been - obviously there is an element of splitting hairs with the likes of Hargreaves, Mascher etc at just under the barrier but my point is that young players for around the £10m-£15m bracket had every bit as much of an impact - Ronaldo, Adabeyor, Eduardo, Hleb, Vidic, Carvalho, Evra and some even less Flamini. I'm going to ignore Fabregas as he was effectively acquired using a loophole in the way the Spanish market works.

Thus we may have to accept that we need to concentrate on signings like Babel and Lucas who will be able to move us forward in the slightly longer term rather than buying players off the shelf so to speak. In the long run these players who have some experience but come to the league young enough seem to be relatively good gambles to me.

Capturing the 'right' players as Rafa puts it is obviously the key but we can't have our pick of the worlds best that much is clear but we can offer PL, CL and good wages to young players and very few clubs can do the same. We may have to make a decision about when those players will in fact be right - can we risk them taking a season to bed in youngsters while relying on our improved fullbacks and already strong spine?

I really don't think we are as far off as some make out - I would buy in one experienced attacker and then concentrate on younger 'prospects' (but those ready for the first team squad at least) myself. FWIW I don't think the likes of Milner are the right type to go for as I think their maximum potential ability is not what we need, Bentley I'm, not sure about but strikes me as a compromise between potential and ability now which might be a viable option.

[Exiled_red]

I'd rather we just spend our whole budget on one (or two) big transfers who would significantly improve their area of the team, rather than spend it on 4 or 5 players who would only be a slight improvement on what we have at the moment

[Woobus]

Mediocre seems to be used far to much now a days when talking about players. Milner and Bentley are two good Premiership players and wouldnt have had as many games if they were mediocre. It seems unless the player is in the top 20 of his position then he is a waste of money now a days and not good enough.

[Dero]

I don't think we can write off a season in the way you describe. however I do think that focussing on £20m players is both a red herring and a bit of a cop out.
Thus we may have to accept that we need to concentrate on signings like Babel and Lucas who will be able to move us forward in the slightly longer term rather than buying players off the shelf so to speak.
I think that was the point I was sort of making without wanting to make a point.

I really don't think we are as far off as some make out.

Mediocre seems to be used far to much now a days when talking about players. Milner and Bentley are two good Premiership players and wouldnt have had as many games if they were mediocre. It seems unless the player is in the top 20 of his position then he is a waste of money now a days and not good enough.

I was only using mediocre as it is less harsh then "****e" which has been bandied about.

[rage]

we've already strengthened our full backs. our central midfield will allegedly be improved with barry in and xabi out. we've spent what £8 million so far. (probably down to 3 if offset by the sale of Riise).

I'd be happy with 2 signings. A superstar striker for 20 odd million and dare i say Bentley for what £12?

The sale of Crouch, Pennant, Carson should easy raise 15 million. That leaves 20 million as a net spend.

It's not about the money this time, its about whether Rafa has it in him to buy just one or two quality, proven players instead of doing what he has done previously too much in spreading the cash over more players.

[Carras_Shin_Pads]

Would be such a waste just writing off a whole season, Gerrard and Carragher aren't getting younger and they want the chance to win every season! Obviously we cant compete with the Man-ures or the chelskis but i'd rather we at least try!

[Roboklopp]

I don't think we can write off a season in the way you describe. however I do think that focussing on £20m players is both a red herring and a bit of a cop out. How many of the top PL players last year were actually bought for £20m+? I'm not sure that as many as people make out have been - obviously there is an element of splitting hairs with the likes of Hargreaves, Mascher etc at just under the barrier but my point is that young players for around the £10m-£15m bracket had every bit as much of an impact - Ronaldo, Adabeyor, Eduardo, Hleb, Vidic, Carvalho, Evra and some even less Flamini. I'm going to ignore Fabregas as he was effectively acquired using a loophole in the way the Spanish market works.

Thus we may have to accept that we need to concentrate on signings like Babel and Lucas who will be able to move us forward in the slightly longer term rather than buying players off the shelf so to speak. In the long run these players who have some experience but come to the league young enough seem to be relatively good gambles to me.

Capturing the 'right' players as Rafa puts it is obviously the key but we can't have our pick of the worlds best that much is clear but we can offer PL, CL and good wages to young players and very few clubs can do the same. We may have to make a decision about when those players will in fact be right - can we risk them taking a season to bed in youngsters while relying on our improved fullbacks and already strong spine?

I really don't think we are as far off as some make out - I would buy in one experienced attacker and then concentrate on younger 'prospects' (but those ready for the first team squad at least) myself. FWIW I don't think the likes of Milner are the right type to go for as I think their maximum potential ability is not what we need, Bentley I'm, not sure about but strikes me as a compromise between potential and ability now which might be a viable option.

we've already strengthened our full backs. our central midfield will allegedly be improved with barry in and xabi out. we've spent what £8 million so far. (probably down to 3 if offset by the sale of Riise).

I'd be happy with 2 signings. A superstar striker for 20 odd million and dare i say Bentley for what £12?

The sale of Crouch, Pennant, Carson should easy raise 15 million. That leaves 20 million as a net spend.

It's not about the money this time, its about whether Rafa has it in him to buy just one or two quality, proven players instead of doing what he has done previously too much in spreading the cash over more players.

My opinion lies somewhere inbetween these 2. DWW's points are generally sound, but I would say that a Villa or Aguero is exactly what we need at the mo, as well as a young & decent winger.

Unfortunately, Downing/Milner/Riera etc just dont have the potential to be considered the latter & I cannot see us going for one of the former.

Yep, the Angry Man & I finally agree on summat. Wow.

[Fubar]

everything seems to be saying that we will have around 20 million net spend. we could in theory have a ****ing awesome squad with this money.

sell
crouch - £12 mill
Riise - £5 mill
Pennant - £6 mill
Alonso - £16 mill
Carson - £8 mill
total - £47 mill

buy
Barry - £14mill
Dossena - £8 mill
Villa - £22 mill
Joaquin/bentley- £12 mill
Quaresma - £17 mill
total - £73 million

so ok the 47 in plus approx 20 would fall 6 million short but the commercial value of having torres and villa playing together would recoup that in next to no time at all.

[jynormous]

everything seems to be saying that we will have around 20 million net spend. we could in theory have a ****ing awesome squad with this money.

sell
crouch - £12 mill
Riise - £5 mill
Pennant - £6 mill
Alonso - £16 mill
Carson - £8 mill
total - £47 mill

buy
Barry - £14mill
Dossena - £8 mill
Villa - £22 mill
Joaquin/bentley- £12 mill
Quaresma - £17 mill
total - £73 million

so ok the 47 in plus approx 20 would fall 6 million short but the commercial value of having torres and villa playing together would recoup that in next to no time at all.

Although i totally agree with you that in selling we can buy, I feel the only problem with this is that your sell figures are much too high.


It would be more like this:
crouch - £10 mill
Riise - £3 mill (4 at best)
Pennant - £4 mill
Alonso - £14 mill
Carson - £5 mill
total - £36 mill

However, that still gives us a total of around 50+ to spend.

I would even add in Benayoun for £5 mill, he is a good player but not a top 4 player. That for me is the key, we have a good list, but we have too many good players and not enough great players. If you could pick a team from the list of all top 4 clubs, you would only select 3 maybe 4 players from our list.

Also, i think Rafa needs to swallow his pride a little and let people like crouch go for market rate instead of trying to get more for the player, becasue £10 mill for him this season is going to look much nicer than when he goes for a free next season.

I think we need to buy some wide players, players who can take a man on and beat him down the outside, instead of cutting into the middle all the time as thats very easy to defend against. To be honest, i dont think Bentley is a top 4 player, and he is not what we need at the moment. We need width and another striker, that way we can play 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1.

[Fubar]

the thing that pisses me off though is that we get screwed all the time. if we want to buy someone we offer the going rate and then end up paying more cos the other club keeps raising the cost or we just cant afford them. if we want to sell someone then we have accept what other clubs offer us. happens too much and makes us look like a weak team in the transfer market.

[Woobus]

the thing that pisses me off though is that we get screwed all the time. if we want to buy someone we offer the going rate and then end up paying more cos the other club keeps raising the cost or we just cant afford them. if we want to sell someone then we have accept what other clubs offer us. happens too much and makes us look like a weak team in the transfer market.

They are two different situations but, we normally sell players that we dont want or need. Whereas when we are buying the team who owns the player normally doesnt want to let them go as they are considered one of their best players.
If a team came in for Torres or Gerrard I am sure they wouldnt leave for anything near there value and we would get a lot more than they were worth.

[Exiled_red]

everything seems to be saying that we will have around 20 million net spend. we could in theory have a ****ing awesome squad with this money.

sell
crouch - £12 mill
Riise - £5 mill
Pennant - £6 mill
Alonso - £16 mill
Carson - £8 mill
total - £47 mill

buy
Barry - £14mill
Dossena - £8 mill
Villa - £22 mill
Joaquin/bentley- £12 mill
Quaresma - £17 mill
total - £73 million

so ok the 47 in plus approx 20 would fall 6 million short but the commercial value of having torres and villa playing together would recoup that in next to no time at all.

I also think your values are a bit high.

And I can't imagine Hicks and Gillette seeing things that way