(bumped) Ronnie Whelan is as big a **** as Dunphy and Giles.

[Jan Molby]

As to say that you are not having digs with your patronising stuff here?

To be fair, I think I could have been more clear. It would seem so, as I am not saying people cannot form a free opinion. Of course they can.
Maybe justify is not the right word, but more back up an opinion with some argumentation, references to past happenings or facts of some kind.

Like if someone says Torres is **** in the air, you would at least expect someone, player, past player, internet warrior - doesn't matter really, to back that up with something, right?

Which was the point I tried to make, Whelan, past legend or not, does not have a carte blanche to throw out criticisms imo - he has to back it up. Otherwise he warrants no respect as an expert of the game.

have you examples where r whelan has not applied this logic, ie not backed up his arguement?

[tomasjj]

[/B]

have you examples where r whelan has not applied this logic, ie not backed up his arguement?

No, I have not, but then again, I was just arguing that opinions have to be backed up no matter who utters them, not that Whelan does not do this.

[Jan Molby]

No, I have not, but then again, I was just arguing that opinions have to be backed up no matter who utters them, not that Whelan does not do this.

agreed

[PTP]

what a bizarre thread

for what it's worth - anyone who doesn't agree with my thoughts on the game is a cunt regardless of the level they have played at or the insight they have into the game, be it as a spectator, pundit, player

[Shaggy]

okay okay......take this in if ya can mate, read it twice if ya have to.

you said: Just because someone has played at the highest level, it doesn’t necessarily follow that he has any sort of insight into the game.

I said: wow.
what a statement!
surely they would have a better insight into the game than me, you or most people on these forums, a former pro footballer??????
come on

As i have said before, this is a very strange statement.

I am of the belief that a top flight proffessional footballer would have a better insight into the game than me, you or anyone else on this forum.

They would know more than me about training, fitness, footballers recommended eating habits, injuries, recovery, physio, agents, player wages, player bonuses, best practice behavior at a football club, scoring goals and strong defenses, getting paid large salaries, contracts, and the majority i would imagine would know more about football tactics and management than me or you.
I really hope you can see what i am getting at, when you say "Just because someone has played at the highest level, it doesn’t necessarily follow that he has any sort of insight into the game", and i respond by saying"what a statement!
surely they would have a better insight into the game than me, you or most people on these forums"

You can name a few people that you may regard not excelling in the tactics of the game, i might even agree with you, but such a broad statement claiming that people at the highest level of football may not have "any sort of insight into the game", is, im my opinion a strange and inaccurate thing to say.

I am not referring to fricken "eating habits, injuries, salaries, physio, training contracts, bonuses" etc etc. FFS!!!

I am talking about the nuances of the game itself.

For example: I am not referring to Whelan in this instance but there are loads of ex-pro pundits who slate Rafa (and other managers) for "playing one up front" as it's "negative". When we played 4-2-3-1 last season (effectively four fluid attacking players), certain ex-pros lambasted Benitez for "only going with one striker".

So these ex-pros - at one time excellent players - are patently failing to grasp or understand the big picture in this instance.

Obviously there are plenty of ex-pro pundits who do display a greater understanding/insight into the game (eg Souness, Hansen), but as I said - it doesn't automatically follow that ex-players possess this understanding.

I vividly remember standing at the bar a few years ago watching a game with Bob Newton - an ex-lower league striker with hundreds of professional games under his belt - and being bewildered at his ignorance regarding Didi Hamann's role in the then-Liverpool team. Not a like-for-like example, granted (i.e. he didn't play at the highest level but he was an experienced pro nonetheless), but you can see where I'm coming from.

[bobbyfallon]

id just like to add that i know more than the rest of you :bird:

[Whelan5]

[/B]

have you examples where r whelan has not applied this logic, ie not backed up his arguement?

One example I would give is when he say's Benitez can't spot a player, he may then list off Krompkamp, Nunez, Gonzalaz etc. He's right they turned out to be poor purchases, however he never mentions the flip side of the great or potentially great players he has bought such as Pepe, Torres, Monster, Agger etc etc.

It's like someone saying Mussolinin was great as he got the trains to run on time, a completely correct statment, however it fails to mention all the people he killed!!

In fairness to Whelan he is obviously entitled to his views but I just wish somebody would challenge him on them.

[Jan Molby]

I am not referring to fricken "eating habits, injuries, salaries, physio, training contracts, bonuses" etc etc. FFS!!!

I am talking about the nuances of the game itself.

For example: I am not referring to Whelan in this instance but there are loads of ex-pro pundits who slate Rafa (and other managers) for "playing one up front" as it's "negative". When we played 4-2-3-1 last season (effectively four fluid attacking players), certain ex-pros lambasted Benitez for "only going with one striker".

So these ex-pros - at one time excellent players - are patently failing to grasp or understand the big picture in this instance.

Obviously there are plenty of ex-pro pundits who do display a greater understanding/insight into the game (eg Souness, Hansen), but as I said - it doesn't automatically follow that ex-players possess this understanding.

I vividly remember standing at the bar a few years ago watching a game with Bob Newton - an ex-lower league striker with hundreds of professional games under his belt - and being bewildered at his ignorance regarding Didi Hamann's role in the then-Liverpool team. Not a like-for-like example, granted (i.e. he didn't play at the highest level but he was an experienced pro nonetheless), but you can see where I'm coming from.

not what you said in your sweeping foolish statement.
and stay on topic, what the **** is the rest of that about?
dont care who you end up in a bar with mate.

"insight into the game", you should have referred to nuances if thats what you meant, stop backtracking

[Shaggy]

Are you deliberately playing dumb?

"insight into the game" - as in the game, the game of football, the game of football and its nuances.

Not ****ing diets, physios etc.

[Jan Molby]

Are you deliberately playing dumb?

"insight into the game" - as in the game, the game of football, the game of football and its nuances.

Not ****ing diets, physios etc.

Thats why people leave this site as i said, ****s like ****ing you, whats your ****ing arguement you small minded tool????

no ability to debate, you truly are lacking in all things reasonable, with all your posts, stick to your sad life drinking with whoever you meet you lonely fool.
i am leaving this site like anyone else with an opinion who couldnt cope with you ****ing clowns who through your toys out the pram when you cant find logic, which happens pretty quick in each thread from what i can see

on that bombsell

over and out

wallow in yourself you cunt

[Pablo]

Ouch!


All this agro over Ronnie Whelan

[Shaggy]

Thats why people leave this site as i said, ****s like ****ing you, whats your ****ing arguement you small minded tool????

no ability to debate, you truly are lacking in all things reasonable, with all your posts, stick to your sad life drinking with whoever you meet you lonely fool.
i am leaving this site like anyone else with an opinion who couldnt cope with you ****ing clowns who through your toys out the pram when you cant find logic, which happens pretty quick in each thread from what i can see

on that bombsell

over and out

wallow in yourself you cunt

FLMAO

Are you having a breakdown?

Funny you should talk about 'throwing toys out of the pram' - who's the one hurling all manner of playground insults, and taking his ball home and "leaving the site"?

Boo-****ing-hoo!

This is being caused by your inability and failure to understand a straightforward and simple remark.

You said:

They would know more than me about training, fitness, footballers recommended eating habits, injuries, recovery, physio, agents, player wages, player bonuses, best practice behavior at a football club, scoring goals and strong defenses, getting paid large salaries, contracts,

This topic - unless you've forgotten - is about pundits talking **** about football. I made my comment that you woefully misunderstood and you responded with this ludicrous post about "eating habits" and the rest.

Since when has any pundit been employed to talk about 'agents, eating habits, player bonuses'?

They are employed to talk about the actual football, and not all ex-pros have a very good understanding of it.

[bobbyfallon]

****s sakes shaggy - first djs and now jan molby

[Pablo]

****s sakes shaggy - first djs and now jan molby

I know mate. He just PM'd me and told me you were in for the chop next. Just a heads up like.

[bobbyfallon]

I know mate. He just PM'd me and told me you were in for the chop next. Just a heads up like.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooo