Gerrard - we'll pay for the lost points later!

[Neil Young]

I'm not using the recent results to 'predict the rest of the season', mr tabloid journalist style take what i said and change it.

I'm merely looking at this trend & everything else i see, and saying that i think it could be likely to happen a couple more times. I'm not saying we're going to draw 3 out of every 8 home games, but looking at all the evidence (not just the recent results), would you be able to rule out the prospect that it'll probably happen a few more times this season? I didnt say it'll definitely happen, but it's a big concern to me. There's definitely a hint of us struggling to break down teams who put men behind the ball at Anfield. It's not my imagination, it's what is actually happening in the real world. If you're convinced it's not a problem and we wont struggle to break teams down much, tell me what you base it on.

Wasnt it you that put on another post today, how you hate it when people assume they know what others are thinking and meaning? In which case, dont do it yourself.

I understood your position and of course I see why it now seems more possible that we'll drop points in future than it did before we dropped points in games we could have expected to have won. But that doesn't mean it will happen in future, as you say. So your fear is based on a negative expectation. It's not more realistic to say it will than it won't. It's just a guess.

My point was that saying there is no essential difference between your position and dww's is wrong.

So don't mistake my point because you disagree with me. And my point in the other thread was about people assuming why others are booing rather than pointing out the inconsistencies in what someone has said.

By the way, I don't mind inconsistency - it's inevitable in a complex world and there's no reason why every post on here has to be written with the rigour of a PhD. I just don't like being accused of hypocrisy when it's not valid. OK?

[Marky]

we will.

[Vermilion]

I read Gerrard's comments as being quite positive. He's saying we've got away with a bad little run but we need to get our house in order now because we won't have that luxury in the future. Completely different to some of the opinions that cause heated debate on here.

Exactly, he is NOT saying we will pay for the points we've already dropped, but that it's very likely that if we continue to do this it will end up costing us, that's assuming..which he is, that the Chavs and Scum won't continue to drop points too.

[mouphy]

I think we agree - at least we do in my head. I'm beginning to think that there are really only two conversations happening in all the open football threads - this one and whether Babel should play up front.

That seems to be the case alright! Babel should be playing up front though

[Sarb]

Well they're all the same, whether they've already been lost, or whether they're in danger of being lost further down the line.

But yes, i agree that as things stand, the damage done isnt fatal, but the worry is that it's happened in 3 home games already, and we've only played 8. So we've failed to score in 37.5% of our home games in the league and this cannot continue. The big concern is that, based on recent evidence, it's likely to happen again at least 2 or 3 more times.

Remember what killed us last year? Because it wasnt the 4 defeats.



Do you really think so? I think that's basically what Sarb's been saying too, same as what Gerrard has said and what you're all agreeing with.

[Vermilion]

Anyway, the same go's for The Chav's & Scum, they keep dropping points and it'll cost them too.

[Sarb]

Anyway, the same go's for The Chav's & Scum, they keep dropping points and it'll cost them too.

Agreed

Mancs are in a strong position though. Could only be three points behind and then they've got to play the other top 3 at home

[Craig_H]

I understood your position and of course I see why it now seems more possible that we'll drop points in future than it did before we dropped points in games we could have expected to have won. But that doesn't mean it will happen in future, as you say. So your fear is based on a negative expectation. It's not more realistic to say it will than it won't. It's just a guess.

My point was that saying there is no essential difference between your position and dww's is wrong.

So don't mistake my point because you disagree with me. And my point in the other thread was about people assuming why others are booing rather than pointing out the inconsistencies in what someone has said.

By the way, I don't mind inconsistency - it's inevitable in a complex world and there's no reason why every post on here has to be written with the rigour of a PhD. I just don't like being accused of hypocrisy when it's not valid. OK?

No my fear isnt based on negative expectation, it's based on the fact that we DO struggle to break teams down at home, we did last season and we have this season. I'm not looking at a one-off and basing my opinion on it, it's a common theme of our games.

I asked if you could show me why it wont happen a few more times, so if you can see why it wont, please do bring it to the table. I'd like to genuinely feel no other 'nothing' side will come to Anfield and get a point because we couldnt score, but i dont. If you have some theories to suggest i have no reason to worry, then i'd genuinely love to have my fears allayed.

[Craig_H]

Anyway, the same go's for The Chav's & Scum, they keep dropping points and it'll cost them too.

Yes of course it will, no disputing that. But it'll only cost them if they keep letting weak sides take points off them at their grounds. Chelsea's home form has been dodgy this year, but that's coming off the back of an immense home record in the league, so history and evidence suggests that in their case, it's a temporary situation. The mancs won 17 out of 19 home games last year, so again, they seem to generally be very strong at home.

We drew 6 and lost 1 of our 19 home league games last season.

So the fear i have isnt based on 'negative predictions' or anything like that, which others may be implying. It's based on the fact that we have a record of wasting opportunities at home and dropping stupid points, while generally speaking, the mancs and chelsea dont.

As i said in my other post, i'm not being negative by choice, or for the sake of it. I base my views on the facts mate.

[Neil Young]

Craig, I don't mind you being negative. In fact I think the argument has some weight and what we think is going to happen is essentially a matter of choice (although I realize that's open to misinterpretation so all I'll say is I don't mean that anyone here wants us to not win the league).

What pisses me off is when people dress it up by saying they are being realistic because there really is no way of knowing. I can choose stats this season that suggest we will win the league:

1 Liverpool FC
2-30 Who cares?

However I understand that's not news to you and it's not going to convince you.

[Craig_H]

Neil, how is it not realistic to say that we tend to drop points at home to weaker sides and it's a concern because we've tended to do it more than Man Utd and Chelsea?

How is that negative, rather than just facing reality?

I have two things i'd like you to tell me.

1) how is that not just a fact?
2) what things convince you that we wont continue dropping silly home points?

[Neil Young]

Neil, how is it not realistic to say that we tend to drop points at home to weaker sides and it's a concern because we've tended to do it more than Man Utd and Chelsea?

How is that negative, rather than just facing reality?

I have two things i'd like you to tell me.

1) how is that not just a fact?
2) what things convince you that we wont continue dropping silly home points?

1) Because you're overlooking the fact that we have won more points at home than Chelsea and we're top of the league.
2) We might and we might not. I don't know because it hasn't happened yet.

You prefer to see the negative which is entirely your prerogative. I don't see the point in worrying about it so I'm just going to enjoy the fact that if we gather as many points in the rest of the season as Man Utd and Chelsea do then we'll win the league. Why is that any more unrealistic than worrying about something you can't affect?

[Neil Young]

By the way I don't disagree that our home form against weaker teams might continue. Then again, it might not.

[Craig_H]

1) Because you're overlooking the fact that we have won more points at home than Chelsea and we're top of the league.
2) We might and we might not. I don't know because it hasn't happened yet.

You prefer to see the negative which is entirely your prerogative. I don't see the point in worrying about it so I'm just going to enjoy the fact that if we gather as many points in the rest of the season as Man Utd and Chelsea do then we'll win the league. Why is that any more unrealistic than worrying about something you can't affect?

This is going round in hilarious circles mate, so i'll just say a couple of things.

1) i'm not basing it on 15 games, like you seem to be with your 'we have won more points at home than chelsea' comment. I'm basing it on the past few years and noticing that this season we, unlike chelsea, are continuing the past couple of season's habit of failing to beat ****e teams at home. It happened last season and it's happening this. It's just something we do. I havent dreamt it up out of nowhere.

2) you seem to confuse my viewpoint for one of (unwarranted) negativity, rather than one of reality - it's based on what HAS and DOES happen (and what is again happening). Your post seems to indirectly imply that i'm manufacturing this view out of thin air, with no actual real-life evidence, which is patently not true. My concern isnt about something happening that's a figment of my imagination, it's about something that keeps happening to us and something that will kill any title challenge if it continues, same as it did last season and seasons before. Let's hope we do actually have an exception to the general rule, and for once, it wont kill our bid.

[Craig_H]

By the way I don't disagree that our home form against weaker teams might continue. Then again, it might not.

Ah, now we're onto something. That is indeed my concern and i'd love for someone to use hard evidence, to convince me that my fears are unfounded. Nobody seems to fancy taking on the challenge though.