Stoke post match thread

[Joe King]

Haha, do you want a Patrick McGoohan avatar or something?

That's the whole reason we don't throw in the towel. When you walk through the storm and all that.

Strange also that much of the vitriol appears to be reserved for Kuyt, who is the one player nobody can accuse of not having bottle and pride - ability is perhaps another question of course, but still....

I say 'we are Liverpool' because we are the masters of cocking **** up a la 1995/96. This was our best chance, we said sayonara to that last night.

[MrMichael]

Never mind the hyperbole, i'm just bored of all the ****ty negative bollocks.

I'm ****ed off with the result today but what can we do? **** it, it's happened, no point dwelling on it.

Maybe part of me has accepted we probably wont win the title, so it's easier to accept dropped points.

People are bound to be a bit negative after a poor performance, its when it goes overboard that I struggle.

Hmmm, sort of with you there, I've always thought we were pretty big outsiders for this title this year; making a genuine challenge, which we have been so far, may have raised our expectations somewhat, but if we are there or thereabouts in May personally I would think we will have achieved our potential. Anything more than that will be a big, and possibly unexpected, bonus.

[tommyg]

we're screaming out for another couple of attacking players with talent to replace players like Benayoun, who in my opinion arent Liverpool standard. I feel bad for Stevie G after yesterday's performance, every single one of us watching knew it was all up to him whether we scored for the first hour+, he was the only player on the pitch with a pure attacking bone in his body...and we were playing stoke.

[brightred]

Haha, do you want a Patrick McGoohan avatar or something?

That's the whole reason we don't throw in the towel. When you walk through the storm and all that.

Strange also that much of the vitriol appears to be reserved for Kuyt, who is the one player nobody can accuse of not having bottle and pride - ability is perhaps another question of course, but still....

He's got great bottle and spirit but he's just not good enough.

Where was Stevie in the first half.

I'm gutted Michael, don't mind admitting it.

Pure gutted

[MrMichael]

He's got great bottle and spirit but he's just not good enough.

Where was Stevie in the first half.

I'm gutted Michael, don't mind admitting it.

Pure gutted

Understandable, but don't despair, I haven't seen any fat ladies singing yet, and I have something of a talent for spotting said fat ladies

Kuyt definitely shouldn't be played upfront on his own, his workrate just doesn't equalise his lack of real goal threat. What I find really strange is that, having actually been pretty good for us on the right in the early part of the season, and having settled into that role, now Rafa's decided to move him upfront in games against relatively poor oposition, accomodate Yossi on the right (who isn't a winger and usually less effective out there than Dirk), and then leave Keane on the bench. Very strange imo.

[brightred]

Understandable, but don't despair, I haven't seen any fat ladies singing yet, and I have something of a talent for spotting said fat ladies

Kuyt definitely shouldn't be played upfront on his own, his workrate just doesn't equalise his lack of real goal threat. What I find really strange is that, having actually been pretty good for us on the right in the early part of the season, and having settled into that role, now Rafa's decided to move him upfront in games against relatively poor oposition, accomodate Yossi on the right (who isn't a winger and usually less effective out there than Dirk), and then leave Keane on the bench. Very strange imo.

Very strange indeed.

Doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo



Get it!

[BrooklynRed]

we're screaming out for another couple of attacking players with talent to replace players like Benayoun, who in my opinion arent Liverpool standard. I feel bad for Stevie G after yesterday's performance, every single one of us watching knew it was all up to him whether we scored for the first hour+, he was the only player on the pitch with a pure attacking bone in his body...and we were playing stoke.

I blame Rafa for this. The best bet today would have been Kuyt out right and Torres and Keane up top, Riera on the left. Our right side was dreadful today; Carragher was out of position and couldn't hit a cross or control the ball in attack to save his life and Benayoun was his typical useless "cut inside, bring defender with, do nothing " self. We had nothing on the right. Kuyt is much better for Carragher on that side-- he will track back AND attack, helping out much more than Benayoun and it allows Kuyt to come deep to pick up the ball, which he does naturally; You can't have your lone striker spend the majority of the match 30 yards outside the box. It's been the same for years now, if I can see this why can't the master tactician? Kuyt/ Riera on the wings, Gerrard in the hole, how about 2 strikers up top?!?! Would have been proper in this match. I was in shock when I saw the team sheet; You cannot lead the league when you travel away to a relegation struggler and PLAY NOT TO LOSE.

So, even if we DO play a 4-5-1, you already know you have six in defense with Lucas/ Mascherano and the back 4-- none of them are going to do much of anything in attack, and they will do fine preventing a goal. Odds in our favor there. So, why is Lucas the engine of the attack in this situation? He is NOT Alonso! You HAVE to counter the 6 defensive minded players with Gerrard constantly touching the ball and leading a balanced attack up top. Lucas should be slotting the ball 5 yards to Gerrard in the middle, and getting out of the way while Gerrard attacks, wins fouls and sprays it around the wings to actual wingers.

Waaaayyyy too conservative today from Rafa. Against Stoke. This is how you lose the league.

And I'm sorry, but United and Chelsea have been no great shakes of late; 1-0 here, draw there. I don't see a dominant side among the top three, so the title is for the taking. We simply have to go take it; Today was another in a long line of lessons Rafa seems to refuse to learn. I admire the man, but he is shocking sometimes.

[EwarWoo]

People are bound to be a bit negative after a poor performance, its when it goes overboard that I struggle.

[Harv]

Gerrard was ****ing ****. At least Lucas showed for the ball, and kept it most of the time. Gerrard did absolutely **** all, except waste a load of corners.

Kuyt was useless. No composure, no skill. He's useless up front on his own.

Stoke are a ****ing disgrace of a side. Hope they go down in a screaming heap. All the have is the highball, and try bully players around with their size. Absolute ****.

First time ive said it this season, but Rafa ****ed up there. Kuyt on his own, with Keane and Torres on the bench was just stupid.

[Maxiedge]

Harv, you know why Torres didn't start. He is not 100% match fit yet. What if he gets injured again for the sake of one game?

The Keane selection is a mystery. I can initially understand why he played Kuyt upfront on his own as he is a monster who'll fight for every ball but if you're going to play Benayoun for his deft touches then why not give Robbie Keane a shot too?

Oh yeah and Stoke are a disgrace and so was the ref.

[FatTony]

it's january and after one bad result that actually put us further ahead in the league you come on here and state it's all over, we wont win the league etc....

The disappointing thing is that its all been in our own hands until now, now its in the Mancs. If they win their games in hand, they're top. We're all pissed off because of this and the pressure is setting in, especially with what it means if they win the league this season.

I think it was a real mistake playing our non scoring strike up front on his own. Also playing both Mascher and Lucas in the middle doesn't seem to work, the fact that it was against Stoke is even worse. It was all just too cautious.

[Kinell]

no mate its over.

Rafa's comments yesterday will now heap even more pressure on the side because to the outside world it looks like we cant deal with the pressure of being top.

We dont have enough experience of being in a dogfight like with and are usually well out of it by now.

Even our most experienced players dont have any knowledge of how to win a league and the mentality that it requires.

Our next 5 games will define it - but for me its the challenge is already over.

We won in Istanbul with Djimi Traore in the team. We are capable of anything.

We saw today the importance of Xabi Alonso to our team. Lucas attempted to fill the void left in his absence and was nothing more than Mascherano's conjoined twin. A very poor team selection from Rafa, our centre midfielders we're both sat just in front of the back four and offered nothing going forward. Gerrard pushed forward to much to support a hopeless kuyt so we had little link up play and flow to create anything and even play our natural game. Pretty much a learning curve today and it better be a lesson learnt especially by Rafa.

BTW, Kuyt is nothing more than a utility man capable of playing most positions competently but offers nothing special anywhere.

Hugely disapointed with the game and with Rafa.

[badpiggy]

a few points

- stoke = liverpool. sort of.

- yesterday we came up against a team who do exactly what we do with poorer players but more stereotypical "passion".

- teams that fold against us don't have the stomach for our physicality and high pressure game. this is our starting point and sadly on days like yesterday, we don't get past it.

- rafa values endeavour and pressure far more than creativity. hence why our best player came off - riera - and our worst - kuyt - stayed on. rafa has a blind spot when it comes to an individual changing a game that is not the product of his system. i.e when torres scores it is because of team play. this is also why he viewed alonso as superfluous. gerrard is the odd man out here but rfa has struggled for years to find a postiton for him.

- babel. dead man walking. our only player who doesn't put in the effort.

- lucas. lacks experience. yesterday he was a very poor mans alonso.

- alonso. christ, how much did we miss him yesterday. i'm still afraid that rafa will sell him.

after yesterday i think we are left with 3 ways of assessing our situation:

1. rafa's way has us on top of the league. the league is more competitive this year than it has been for ages. we should be delighted.

2. rafa's way has us struggling to pull away from teams who are underperforming below us. ie. chelsea and utd. his caution means we don't go for the jugular when it's the way to win this league. utd must be laughing their ****in arses off.

3. we don't have the strength in depth to maintain a title challenge.

personally i belive all 3!

-

[el matador]

i dont think rafa's rant yesterday will have any bearing on the league outcome this year at all. i dont see the result today combined with yesterdays rant making him look like keegan. keegan lost the plot i the heat of the moment. rafa took time to write down a well worded letter which he used to show how manipulative fergie is. i still think his rant was perfect and will have a positive effect.

we have in stevie g a man who will not let us through this away. he will do what he always does....drags us by the scruff of the neck to keep us top. when torres starts playing full 90 mins AND arbeloa gets fit again AND insua gets back from international duty AND skrtel gets match fit AND alonso recovers from stitches AND rafa realises keane is a valuable player these things wil help our form.

fair do's i shouldn't question you being a fan but heat of the moment to come on this site and see fans throw in the towel in january when we are having our best season in a long long time got to me.

IMO it will still all come down to the head to head meetings with the big teams cause on current form chelsea and manure will continue to drop points.

you may not believe this but my other post in the match thread was much much worse.

Im definitely not posting on this site after a **** result again because as you say in the heat of the moment things get said and that in hindsight should not be but rafa pisses me off and i genuinely believe that he wont deliver the title.

Playing Lucas against a tough physical side was a disasterous decision and one that most of us thought wouldnt work - it didnt.

Taking riera off - who was our best player up to that point was another gobsmacking decision when benayoun had been pants all game.

Starting with kuyt instead of keane will not get you goals. He just isnt good enough at this level and needs to be moved on but seems to be one of rafa's best buddies along with lucas.

Not bringing keane on when we need to win the match.

Football should be a simple game but he over complicates it - too much emphasis on tactics and not enough on lets play and let the likes of stoke worry about us.

[bobbyfallon]

wrong team started yesterday. simple as that. torres not 100 % fit. fair enough take him off after 60 mins and defend the lead.

reina
carra sami agger aurilio
kuyt macher steve reira
torres keane

that team would have won yesterday imo.

im really struggling to be positive after yesterday - and i was looking forward to the united - chelsea match today, now im nervous.

**** it anyways