Purchase of Robbie Keane

[DannyMan2006]

They might - you have to think of the chances of risk and reward I agree. I think that the financial arm of the business has the right to input (and veto in extreme circumstances) on these sorts of decisions.

You have to think that we couldn't have absorbed say a Shevchenko style gamble that failed to come off. If that had happened we would have had very little to turn round the team the year after. Most of the time in my view Rafa hasn't looked to make those sort of gambles but it is far from unimaginable.

If Rafa wants to spend the full budget on one player, then let him. It is often moaned that we spread the money around too much, prior to the Torres and Babel signings.

I really can not see your point at all. The idea you state is just ridiculous. What the hell do the board know abut football? Nothing. Why should they get the final say on what players to purchase? It doesn't make sense.

It may have slipped your mind that it was such tactics that cost us Evra and Vidic, who are doing rather well at the Mancs. I'm sure there are also instances where we have missed out on players who would not have made the grade to. But if his signings fail when he has full control, no doubt he would get the sack.

Give him the control and let him live and die by the results he acheives.

[dww]

If Rafa wants to spend the full budget on one player, then let him. It is often moaned that we spread the money around too much, prior to the Torres and Babel signings.

I really can not see your point at all. The idea you state is just ridiculous. What the hell do the board know abut football? Nothing. Why should they get the final say on what players to purchase? It doesn't make sense.

It may have slipped your mind that it was such tactics that cost us Evra and Vidic, who are doing rather well at the Mancs. I'm sure there are also instances where we have missed out on players who would not have made the grade to. But if his signings fail when he has full control, no doubt he would get the sack.

Give him the control and let him live and die by the results he acheives.

Well the point I'm trying to make is that from a business point of view a gamble on a player where we might well make money back from selling them even if they fail for us is different to one where we won't - the latter will affect the budget in future much more and therefore our potential success in the future both footballing and financial. It is the club/owners who have to deal with the financial problems of an investment gone wrong - worst case scenario for Rafa he gets sacked. If we underachieve and have less than we have in previous seasons for transfers that could have real problems long term.

Much of Rafa's success so far has come because he has bought young players on the up or players like Bellamy available for relatively cheap with profits from sales and success helping him to fund the evolution of the team. If he had bought older players with no resale value and achieved the same footballing results then he could not have progressed the team as he has as wouldn't have the money.

I also don't for a second buy the argument that it is even possible to go - "you have £30m to spend, do whatever". Over what time period we pay for deals, in what currency etc. will have an impact on whether we can afford them and the deals that can be done. I'd rather a financial expert dealt with such things and as such the literal idea of Rafa having complete control over transfers is unlikely to even be in his best interests.

[Red Chilli]

so was keanes acquisition rafa's idea or not.

I don't think Rick Parry would just pull that transfer out of thin air and I don't remember Rafa protesting too much when Keane was signed.

It's quite clear that Rafa wanted Keane, despite any back-tracking he might be trying to do through the media

[DannyMan2006]

Much of Rafa's success so far has come because he has bought young players on the up or players like Bellamy available for relatively cheap with profits from sales and success helping him to fund the evolution of the team. If he had bought older players with no resale value and achieved the same footballing results then he could not have progressed the team as he has as wouldn't have the money.

Correct, showing that Rafa has been sensible with the limited funds he has had available. A lot of the signings failed, but he did make a profit on certain players, which was always on the cards in the event of a failure. Of course, had LFC had plenty of money there is no doubt in my mind that certain players would not have been bought into the club, but you have to shop at places you can afford.

I also don't for a second buy the argument that it is even possible to go - "you have £30m to spend, do whatever". Over what time period we pay for deals, in what currency etc. will have an impact on whether we can afford them and the deals that can be done. I'd rather a financial expert dealt with such things and as such the literal idea of Rafa having complete control over transfers is unlikely to even be in his best interests.

[COLOR="Red"]I'm not sure you get the context of what he is asking. Allhe wants is to be able to decide how the budget is spent. He is not asking to negotiate the finer details, only to say that if club aks for more, he should decide if they get it or not.

In a country such as Spain, or Italy, I can see the justification in sporting directors and the likes, as a manager only lasts a couple of seasons and they are fired. To bulid a team based on what every manager wanted would be unsustainable. In England, where long-term is the key, it should be the manager alone who chooses which players to sign, and how much value they have to the team.[/COL

[Slinky Skills]

Wouldn't we all, but with being the housing markets the way they are at the moment...


Anyway since Rafa is prone to using the media to convey any issues that he doesn't seem to be able to resolve in a timely manner I can't see how a player he didn't want to sign would be at the club without anyone having heard of it.

If Keane had bagged 15 league goals I don't think we'd be hearing anything like the number of theories that are floating around at the moment.

Keane still has time to bag 15 league goals......and will!

[Slinky Skills]

Yes. And if the team fails as a result he gets the boot. A manager should stand and fall by his results.

But this is what Rafa is saying though mate. He's publicly come out and said that he wants the responsibility with regards to transfers, no one else. He knows that if results don't happen then he'll get the grief for it, what more does he need to do???

I admire Rafa for having the balls to do this. He is a decent man and he loves this club. If we **** up down the line then it's his fault. He is man enough to admit that.

[kris90210]

so was keanes acquisition rafa's idea or not....judging by the interview it doesnt seem like it. the last time i checked we dont have a technical director or is that incompetent **** parry masquerading as one....cant be the yanks cus they know fcuk all about the game.

I cant see Rafa standing for anything like that. His recent outburst is to do with budget. It has been mentioned numerous times by the owners and Parry that Rafa identifies the targets.

I think what it boils down to is he wants to be able to spend as much as he wants on a player as long as its within the set budget. Which, to be fair, is a pretty reasonable request at the end of the day. as he said himself, he's the one who is judged on the transfers, so he should have full control.

I wonder if he had the kindof control he's asking for now a few years ago, whether he would have upped his bid for Alves. What a difference he would make to our side!

I hope they get it sorted. Give him control, if it doesnt work, then he's 100% responsible. Fair enough

[dww]

[COLOR="Red"]I'm not sure you get the context of what he is asking. Allhe wants is to be able to decide how the budget is spent. He is not asking to negotiate the finer details, only to say that if club aks for more, he should decide if they get it or not.

In a country such as Spain, or Italy, I can see the justification in sporting directors and the likes, as a manager only lasts a couple of seasons and they are fired. To bulid a team based on what every manager wanted would be unsustainable. In England, where long-term is the key, it should be the manager alone who chooses which players to sign, and how much value they have to the team.[/COL

The point is that if he doesn't know the finer points then realistically he doesn't know how much money he has to spend. Transfer dealings have to be a collaborative effort and in that context I see no reason why we should not run like any other club in the PL. United and Arsenal both have financial veto over deals for the board according to most sources.

There should never be a situation where the board say that a manager has to sign a player for us but it is IMO completely reasonable for them to say no to specific players on specific deals if the criteria are well known to the manager. In the same way that they may feel able to increase the budget for a player who will improve our off field revenue. It makes no sense to me at all to have an all powerful manager who could leave at any time, however good that manager might be.

I do think we need to change the way that we do transfers but the ideal has to be something like the Wenger/Dein combination in my view.

[el matador]

The point is that if he doesn't know the finer points then realistically he doesn't know how much money he has to spend. Transfer dealings have to be a collaborative effort and in that context I see no reason why we should not run like any other club in the PL. United and Arsenal both have financial veto over deals for the board according to most sources.

There should never be a situation where the board say that a manager has to sign a player for us but it is IMO completely reasonable for them to say no to specific players on specific deals if the criteria are well known to the manager. In the same way that they may feel able to increase the budget for a player who will improve our off field revenue. It makes no sense to me at all to have an all powerful manager who could leave at any time, however good that manager might be.

I do think we need to change the way that we do transfers but the ideal has to be something like the Wenger/Dein combination in my view.

rafa and kenny

[Fubar]

Rubbish. Rafa is given a budget. The players brought in are not decided by their potential increase in value, just value for money. If Rafa feels that a 35 year old is worth £15m then so be it.

After all, it is Rafas performances the previous year that judge the amount in the budget. If he thinks the 35 year old will win the trophies for LFC who is to say otherwise? No doubt if the player flopped his budget would be affected the following year due to poor performance.

A compromise I would suggest is this:

Give Rafa the control, but if a clause is inserted in his contract. The clause being that if we finsih out the top 4 the board can sack him and pay a nominal compensation package to Rafa. Basically, he can have the control but failure would result in a financial loss to him. If Rafa was confident of success using his methods then he should be willing to accept that.

Gary Mcallister - i know he wasnt really expensive but he was old

[Chrono]

Anyone still think he wasn't a complete waste of money? Jesus christ the guy was bad last night, almost on a new level of how bad he was before that.

[Joe King]

Waste of money - I'd rather have a moody so and so but scores the goals then this idiot. He looks like he hasn't kicked a ball before. Did anyone else see him say '**** off' before running to the touchline?

[Tee]

Waste of money - I'd rather have a moody so and so but scores the goals then this idiot. He looks like he hasn't kicked a ball before. Did anyone else see him say '**** off' before running to the touchline?

I think he said that to an Everton player.

We are not playing to his, and Torres' strengths right now. Too many long balls and they are just feeding off scraps. Without proper service even the best players can look worse than ordinary.

[Joe King]

I think he said that to an Everton player.

We are not playing to his, and Torres' strengths right now. Too many long balls and they are just feeding off scraps. Without proper service even the best players can look worse than ordinary.

Torres was getting the first balls and still looked much better despite coming back from injury.

[The Birdman]

He said **** off I thought in disappointment at getting dragged off again, I thought he was very poor to equally so how many times did Torres look to pass to him to create link up play, I honestly don't think it was once, hard to play well when you're not getting much of the ball