Knee jerk central

[BFG]

It's hardly only the drawn derby though, is it? People always single out the latest ****e result. Unfortunately it's one of many. 11 home games, only 6 wins.

We basically fail to win at home about half the time. That is why people are writing it off.

Before Stoke away, the previous ****e draws were written off as 'one offs' and not a problem because we were gonna beat Stoke away. Then we drew at Stoke and that game was added to the list, but dont worry, we'll beat everton. Now we've failed to do that as well.

We could keep drawing and some people will keep pretending it's one solitary result that people are using to back up their views. It's not.

Ok then if we look at the season as a whole then is there really a basis for writing it off? Top of the league for most of the season, 3 points behind the leaders in a worst case scenario. It was only a couple of games back we looked superb against Newcastle and I for one know that we'll find that form again. Whether we'll win it or not I'm not sure but I'm certainly not ready to accept that we definitely won't.

[Vermilion]

Excellent post. Have a cigar.

Yes, good post. People don't seem to realise certain things, the Bitters no matter what we may think of them are one of the in-form sides in the prem for what they have, add to that the fact that they would raise their game for us..it's their BIGGEST game of the season.

And all these posters that are so certain it's over, i just don't get it, disappointment yes, anger...of course...but Capitulation.

[Joe King]

Ok then if we look at the season as a whole then is there really a basis for writing it off? Top of the league for most of the season, 3 points behind the leaders in a worst case scenario. It was only a couple of games back we looked superb against Newcastle and I for one know that we'll find that form again. Whether we'll win it or not I'm not sure but I'm certainly not ready to accept that we definitely won't.

Teams know how to play against us, until we change our style or bring in a plan B, we will struggle to win games because Benitez doesn't have the cojones to really change a game in an attacking sense.

[Joe King]

One point closer to the title.

If you're not up for the fight then do one.

Not true, we should have been way ahead of the pack by now. One man is to blame.

[Kenneth]

It's hardly only the drawn derby though, is it? People always single out the latest ****e result. Unfortunately it's one of many. 11 home games, only 6 wins.

We basically fail to win at home about half the time. That is why people are writing it off.

Before Stoke away, the previous ****e draws were written off as 'one offs' and not a problem because we were gonna beat Stoke away. Then we drew at Stoke and that game was added to the list, but dont worry, we'll beat everton. Now we've failed to do that as well.

We could keep drawing and some people will keep pretending it's one solitary result that people are using to back up their views. It's not.

We've looked unconvincing leaders and we're not even leaders anymore. Without a major upturn in form and a vastly different appraoch by Rafa, we won't stop dropping points and we won't build up a head of steam. If we were going to do it this year we needed to keep confidence high until we were well clear. I don't think we'll have the bottle to play catch up.

[Vermilion]

Teams know how to play against us, until we change our style or bring in a plan B, we will struggle to win games because Benitez doesn't have the cojones to really change a game in an attacking sense.

And you KNOW that we would be better off had he followed your tactical plan, we could be worse off for all you know, nothing is certain, except that at present we ARE in the hunt....Still. imho.

[Craig_H]

Ok then if we look at the season as a whole then is there really a basis for writing it off? Top of the league for most of the season, 3 points behind the leaders in a worst case scenario. It was only a couple of games back we looked superb against Newcastle and I for one know that we'll find that form again. Whether we'll win it or not I'm not sure but I'm certainly not ready to accept that we definitely won't.

People are talking about winning it, that's the target and recent form suggests we'll be out of the title race in a few weeks. Obviously we've done very well upto the halfway point but winning the league requires a huge level of consistency and you have very little margin for error.

Only winning 6 of our 11 home games simply isnt good enough and i'm curious to know what makes people either think it is, or if they acknowledge that it's not good enough, what enables them to dismiss it.

[Vermilion]

People are talking about winning it, that's the target and recent form suggests we'll be out of the title race in a few weeks. Obviously we've done very well upto the halfway point but winning the league requires a huge level of consistency and you have very little margin for error.

Only winning 6 of our 11 home games simply isnt good enough and i'm curious to know what makes people either think it is, or if they acknowledge that it's not good enough, what enables them to dismiss it.

Don't really think anyone is dismissing it, we're not stupid, we know things could be better, but you and others seem so ceratin it's how it will be till the end of the season, i just have a bit of hope it will change, because i do know we can play far better...I have seen it with my own eyes.

[Craig_H]

[/B]
And you KNOW that we would be better off had he followed your tactical plan, we could be worse off for all you know, nothing is certain, except that at present we ARE in the hunt....Still. imho.

Nobody knows for sure of course, but it's probabilities. If you add to your attacking options on the park, the probability is that you'll stand more chance of scoring more.

Look at the difference:

Us away to Stoke. 0-0, needing a winner, striker stays on the bench.
Mancs away to Bolton, 0-0, needing a winner - and they have Ronaldo, Berbatov and Tevez ALL on the pitch. Rooney would've been too if he'd been fit.

The difference is they actively do all they can to find a winner, they go for the throat and inevitably they often get that late goal. We call it lucky, but the fact is, they're rewarded for having the balls to just go for it.

We stick with one striker and just hope to pinch a goal somehow.

It's no coincidence that we draw 0-0 quite a lot and they rarely fail to score.

[ntto]

being top of the table for most of the season means little, being top of the table at the end of the season counts for everything. Think I read yesterday that Utd werent top last year until march, and they went on to win it.

We've missed an opportunity - not just in last nights game, but in all the games we've played lesser opposition and not won - when we should have been winning comfortably.

When utd played chelsea last week I remember reading the lineup and thinking that aside from ronaldo it was easily the worst utd midfield I've seen in 20 years. But yet they beat a full strength chelsea team comfortably.

Player for player last night there wasnt one everton player I'd take over the 11 we lined up with. Yes it was a derby game but realistically on paper we should be comfortable winners - especially at home.

But it's up to rafa and the boys to turn it around now. we don't have the experience of a title run in with this squad, and utd will have a massive advantage over us in that respect.

[Joe King]

being top of the table for most of the season means little, being top of the table at the end of the season counts for everything. Think I read yesterday that Utd werent top last year until march, and they went on to win it.

We've missed an opportunity - not just in last nights game, but in all the games we've played lesser opposition and not won - when we should have been winning comfortably.

When utd played chelsea last week I remember reading the lineup and thinking that aside from ronaldo it was easily the worst utd midfield I've seen in 20 years. But yet they beat a full strength chelsea team comfortably.

Player for player last night there wasnt one everton player I'd take over the 11 we lined up with. Yes it was a derby game but realistically on paper we should be comfortable winners - especially at home.

But it's up to rafa and the boys to turn it around now. we don't have the experience of a title run in with this squad, and utd will have a massive advantage over us in that respect.

[ntto]

Nobody knows for sure of course, but it's probabilities. If you add to your attacking options on the park, the probability is that you'll stand more chance of scoring more.

Look at the difference:

Us away to Stoke. 0-0, needing a winner, striker stays on the bench.
Mancs away to Bolton, 0-0, needing a winner - and they have Ronaldo, Berbatov and Tevez ALL on the pitch. Rooney would've been too if he'd been fit.

The difference is they actively do all they can to find a winner, they go for the throat and inevitably they often get that late goal. We call it lucky, but the fact is, they're rewarded for having the balls to just go for it.

We stick with one striker and just hope to pinch a goal somehow.

It's no coincidence that we draw 0-0 quite a lot and they rarely fail to score.

agree with everything there

[Craig_H]

Don't really think anyone is dismissing it, we're not stupid, we know things could be better, but you and others seem so ceratin it's how it will be till the end of the season, i just have a bit of hope it will change, because i do know we can play far better...I have seen it with my own eyes.

Of course we can, but can and will are two different things.

We also 'can' batter Stoke, Hull, Fulham etc etc. But we dont. Largely due to the 'do just enough' mentality of the manager.

It was clear from last night, 1-0 up with 20 mins to go and does he seek to score a 2nd and kill it off? Nope, he decides to try and do 'just enough' and hang on to the 1-0. Negative substitutions (and even then wrong ones) and we pay the price. We got what we deserved last night, because Rafa's is ultimately a cautious manager who doesnt feel confident enough to take the shackles off. Too regimented, too static, too slow. We wont win the title like this.

I hope it will change, but 5 home draws out of 11 isnt just 5 freaky fluke results. It's happened because of the cautious mentality and the refusal to just go for the throat. The mancs do this regularly and it'll win them the league.

[Vermilion]

Of course we can, but can and will are two different things.

We also 'can' batter Stoke, Hull, Fulham etc etc. But we dont. Largely due to the 'do just enough' mentality of the manager.

It was clear from last night, 1-0 up with 20 mins to go and does he seek to score a 2nd and kill it off? Nope, he decides to try and do 'just enough' and hang on to the 1-0. Negative substitutions (and even then wrong ones) and we pay the price. We got what we deserved last night, because Rafa's is ultimately a cautious manager who doesnt feel confident enough to take the shackles off. Too regimented, too static, too slow. We wont win the title like this.

I hope it will change, but 5 home draws out of 11 isnt just 5 freaky fluke results. It's happened because of the cautious mentality and the refusal to just go for the throat. The mancs do this regularly and it'll win them the league.

I hear what your saying, and i can't disagree, but i live in hope that whatever decisions Rafa is making, however odd they seem to us, they turn out to be the right ones when it all pans out, and that hopefully if still in touch at the end we have our best players on the pitch.

[BFG]

Teams know how to play against us, until we change our style or bring in a plan B, we will struggle to win games because Benitez doesn't have the cojones to really change a game in an attacking sense.

I'd find that statement a bit more credible if we hadn't come back from so many deficits to get results this year. Boro, Man Utd, Man City, Wigan, PSV, Hull off the top of my head.

Benitez has plenty of 'cojones,' don't worry about that, just ask G&H. If we don't play well it isn't always because of Rafa, it's sometimes because the players haven't done what's been asked of them and seeing as Benitez has managed to get us to the point where we are now without arguably our best player and certainly one of the best players in the league who is now back to fitness (Torres) then I think he's still the man to take us forward.