Knee jerk central

[Craig_H]

"Hallmark of champions" or "winning ugly"? Man U fans - and Sky TV of course - would use the former description, while the way they've been labouring to get goals would more accurately be reflected in the latter description

It's both Redspin. Ultimately, i dont care if we play well, as long as we win because it's obviously points and results which will win the league.

As things stand, we cant buy a win.

[Redspin]

How was it defensive? When Lucas came on, who did he replace?

Torres - because he was apparently tired, but Gerrard - not normally considered defensive - was deployed in his usual attacking role behind the striker, Kuyt, who moved into the centre. Watch the game again on LFC TV and you'll see I'm not making it up. That apart, I don't know many teams who are 1 up in a local derby that think going gung-ho and playing more strikers is the way to go near the end. And Lucas coming on had nothing to do with their goal. An attacking substitute, Benayoun, made a poor challenge and the defence completely failed to pick up their man in the 6-yard box. If we'd left Torres on, brought Babel on and asked Ian Rush to come down from the stands and join in it wouldn't have prevented the goal

[BFG]

I actually think we'll beat Wigan and Chelsea but I can see why you may think we'd draw yeah. The fact is though bar a maximum of three points we have just as good a chance as the Mancs.

They may be churning out wins but who's to say that can continue? Either they'll find form or start dropping points like they were doing earlier in the season. They're certinaly not doing enough to frighten anyone. I personally feel this is our bad patch and we'll go back to beating teams week in week out. The thing that bugs me is that certain people don't seem to think that's possible even though we did it week after week at the end of last seaon and the beginning of this.

[Redspin]

Because they go for it when they need to to snatch the points. The Stoke games, 1 goal more, 2 point morel.

Conveniently forgetting that United played pure and utter ****e against Stoke, never looked remotely like scoring, and only eventually scored when a Stoke defender rose to the bait and hacked down Ronaldo, who'd just got away with kicking out at him, so the Stoke player was sent off. Only when Stoke were one defender down for the last 17 minutes did Man U scramble a winner 7 minutes from time. Before that it was never going to happen. It also had nothing to do with positive substitutions, before Craig H dives in.

[Redspin]

It's purely factual that title winners nearly always have superb home records, rarely ever do they drop more than 10 points. We've dropped 10 already with 8 home games still left. I think we'll need to win all 8 to stand any chance of the title and it's a hard position to put ourselves in. I dont understand what you're arguing with really. Do you NOT think that dropping 10 home points by this stage will harm our chances? Do you think that drawing at home to Stoke, Hull, Fulham & West Ham is something that is likely to see us ending up as champions? It's as if i'm saying we play in blue or something. Those things i've said are surely true, arent they? Or do you not think so?

We'll see at the end of the season mate, i hope you come back to me and laugh in my face because i was so wrong.

So away records don't count then?

[Kenneth]

I actually think we'll beat Wigan and Chelsea but I can see why you may think we'd draw yeah. The fact is though bar a maximum of three points we have just as good a chance as the Mancs.

They may be churning out wins but who's to say that can continue? Either they'll find form or start dropping points like they were doing earlier in the season. They're certinaly not doing enough to frighten anyone. I personally feel this is our bad patch and we'll go back to beating teams week in week out. The thing that bugs me is that certain people don't seem to think that's possible even though we did it week after week at the end of last seaon and the beginning of this.

I think most people think it is possible, just not probable.

[Baldemort]

Torres - because he was apparently tired, but Gerrard - not normally considered defensive - was deployed in his usual attacking role behind the striker, Kuyt, who moved into the centre. Watch the game again on LFC TV and you'll see I'm not making it up. That apart, I don't know many teams who are 1 up in a local derby that think going gung-ho and playing more strikers is the way to go near the end. And Lucas coming on had nothing to do with their goal. An attacking substitute, Benayoun, made a poor challenge and the defence completely failed to pick up their man in the 6-yard box. If we'd left Torres on, brought Babel on and asked Ian Rush to come down from the stands and join in it wouldn't have prevented the goal

My point was that I don't see how you can argue that replacing Torres with a midfielder can be seen as anything other than a defensive move. I see your point about moving Gerrard forward etc, but it's still taking a striker off to replace him one of our weakest midfielders. It was a move purely to shore us up so we wouldn't concede.

[Craig_H]

So away records don't count then?

Not remotely what i said or implied.

Nobody said away records dont count but teams who win the title tend to have awesome home records where they rarely drop 10 points or more.

THAT IS A FACT.

[Craig_H]

My point was that I don't see how you can argue that replacing Torres with a midfielder can be seen as anything other than a defensive move. I see your point about moving Gerrard forward etc, but it's still taking a striker off to replace him one of our weakest midfielders. It was a move purely to shore us up so we wouldn't concede.

I agree with this. Even in shoring up, we brought on the wrong defensive midfielder. Why not Mascherano, i'll never ever know.

[rudedog]

I agree with this. Even in shoring up, we brought on the wrong defensive midfielder. Why not Mascherano, i'll never ever know.

Maybe Rafa thought that Lucas would keep the ball better than masch would?

Or maybe Rafa thought that the because Everton were relying heavily on pumping long high balls up that Lucas would be better suited to dealing with this aerial threat.

[Craig_H]

Because Lucas is a giant and a beast in the air?

[rudedog]

Because Lucas is a giant and a beast in the air?

no but hes better than masch which was your comparison

[Craig_H]

no but hes better than masch which was your comparison

I dont think Lucas is THAT good in the air, to be called 'much' better than Mascherano. In fact, i dont think there's anything at all that Lucas is better at than Mascherano.

Each to their own, of course.

[Vermilion]

Originally Posted by Craig_H Sig.
Therein lies the problem. And this problem is caused by Rafa being too cautious and refusing to just throw caution to the wind. The consequence is Man Utd win titles and we dont.

Oh god, you speak with such authority too, but you really believe this is our problem, Rafa not "throwing caution to the wind", and Fergie does this by playing Berbatov, Rooney, Tevez & Ronaldo.

The problems we've had winning the prem go a lot deeper than throwing caution to the wind imo. And deeper than managerial decisions too. Goodbye.

[pondus]

I see the negative ****-stirring Fergie-loving doom mongers are having the time of their life. Good on you, annoying as **** for many of us. You are almost as annoying as the scum. **** it I'm annoyed as hell with the draws at home, but to constantly come on here and spout that ****ing ****?! In every ****ing thread?

Think I'll come back in a couple of days to see if there's any change.