A Ball Playing Center Back

[dww]

I know he at times produces something, but that doesn't change the fact that he is not a good winger. Kuyt has many qualities, but getting past his direct opponent is not one of them.

That is true but he creates a lot of goals without doing that. He makes space for himself well, wins balls others wouldn't through commitment and inteligence. He is not a natural winger and if you try and compare him to the qualities in that ideal then he doesn't meet the criteria if you ask is there any player in the league who has been more productive in an attacking right-sided position in the league this year then I think you would struggle with the only possible exception being Ronaldo.

[dww]

I think that Agger is a great option but over the season I think he has been considerably less defensively sound than Skrtel to be honest. He has the potential to be one of the best defenders in the world but he really does have to knuckle down and start improving consistently the areas of weakness in his game. We have seen on many occasions how good he can be when he wants to up his game but at the same time I think a lot of fans give him an easy ride for his defensive frailties at times because he is the style of player that they would like to see in the team.

[Vermilion]

They did today.

Of course I'm made up with the result and I'm as frustrated as you or anyone else when the media spouts the same old crap about another team not turning up but I think we had about 20 attempts to their 1. There were times in the second half when it was just too easy and we were trying to score picturebook goals.

Blackburn played a lot better when they lost at Old Trafford about 6 weeks ago.

I think they played a bit like sides usually do against UTD, with fear.

[SB]

I think that Agger is a great option but over the season I think he has been considerably less defensively sound than Skrtel to be honest. He has the potential to be one of the best defenders in the world but he really does have to knuckle down and start improving consistently the areas of weakness in his game. We have seen on many occasions how good he can be when he wants to up his game but at the same time I think a lot of fans give him an easy ride for his defensive frailties at times because he is the style of player that they would like to see in the team.

It depends if you want a 9 /10 type defender like Skittles who offers maybe 1/10 going forward or someone like Dan Agger who is say 7/10 defensively and maybe a 5/10 going forward.

Those ratings are open for your own interpretation obviously but the fact remains that Agger offers something going forward that no other CB ay our club offers. Agger should play against teams that park the bus until he lifts his defensive game to that of Skittles. Personally I'd play Dan for the rest of the season to see if he can stay fit and sign a new deal.

[Darkon]

That is true but he creates a lot of goals without doing that. He makes space for himself well, wins balls others wouldn't through commitment and inteligence. He is not a natural winger and if you try and compare him to the qualities in that ideal then he doesn't meet the criteria if you ask is there any player in the league who has been more productive in an attacking right-sided position in the league this year then I think you would struggle with the only possible exception being Ronaldo.

With the danger of turning this in to a Kuyt discussion, I have said many times, and stand by it still, that I would be very excited about Kuyt if he played Maschers position. But in his current position I still think he is a bigger hindrance than a giver to the team. When he plays, we the opposition only need 1 to defend on the wing, and that leaves an extra to mark Torres and Gerrard.

And I know he has produced some goals, and scored quite a few, but for me it is not enough to justify having his type of player on the wing.

[SB]

Sing along with me now..

Daniel Agger, Liverpool's No 5
Na Na na na na na na na na na na na,
Na Na na na na na na na na na na na,


I love him I do

[SB]

With the danger of turning this in to a Kuyt discussion, I have said many times, and stand by it still, that I would be very excited about Kuyt if he played Maschers position. But in his current position I still think he is a bigger hindrance than a giver to the team. When he plays, we the opposition only need 1 to defend on the wing, and that leaves an extra to mark Torres and Gerrard.

And I know he has produced some goals, and scored quite a few, but for me it is not enough to justify having his type of player on the wing.

Not wanting to turn this into a Kuyt thread either but when I saw this I couldn't resist

Quote

"DIRK KUYT has been hailed as Liverpool’s unsung hero after helping sweep aside Blackburn Rovers.

With injury concerns consigning Steven Gerrard to the bench, Kuyt partnered Fernando Torres in attack for Saturday’s visit of the Lancastrians.

And while the Dutchman was not among the goalscorers in a 4-0 romp for the Anfield outfit, his performance earned the plaudits of the opposition.

“Torres is such a big threat with his running in behind you,” said Blackburn midfielder David Dunn. “Obviously as a team we knew that and dropped deeper. He makes those runs and is such a handful.

“But Dirk Kuyt, in my opinion, is just as important. He is such an unselfish player and gives just as much to the side. He plays a number of positions, works his socks off for the team and never stops running.

“He's very, very good, but maybe doesn't always get as much credit as he deserves.”

Torres set Liverpool on their way with two goals before the interval, the first of which was a genuine goal of the season contender.

The Spaniard has started only 15 of 32 league games this season but has now netted 11 goals in that time.

And while Dunn is convinced the availability of Torres for longer periods would have enhanced Liverpool ’s title chances, he believes every challenger is affected by injuries to key members.

“I'm sure they would have got a lot more points if he hadn't been injured for parts of the season, without a shadow of a doubt,” he added. “He's a top, top player.

“I know what people will say, but I'm not sure it would have made a difference in where the title ends up though. United have had their injury problems, likewise Chelsea , and over the season I think that balances out. The best team will win the league over the whole course of things.”

Dunn added: “We set our stall out, but weren't great. Take nothing away from Liverpool , they're a top side, and that's why they are where they are. But it was disappointing.“

[dww]

It depends if you want a 9 /10 type defender like Skittles who offers maybe 1/10 going forward or someone like Dan Agger who is say 7/10 defensively and maybe a 5/10 going forward.

Those ratings are open for your own interpretation obviously but the fact remains that Agger offers something going forward that no other CB ay our club offers. Agger should play against teams that park the bus until he lifts his defensive game to that of Skittles. Personally I'd play Dan for the rest of the season to see if he can stay fit and sign a new deal.

I think that (particularly at the beginning of the season) Skrtel did well in terms of bringing the ball into midfield. He has however seemed more restrained of late. I agree there are circumstances when having Agger is a real boon but at the minute he isn't a good enough defender to be considered as a first choice ahead of Skrtel on a regular basis. he should have to fight for his place and improve to earn it.

He will get chances and he has to make the most of them and kick on as a player.

[Darkon]

Not wanting to turn this into a Kuyt thread either but when I saw this I couldn't resist

Quote

"DIRK KUYT has been hailed as Liverpool’s unsung hero after helping sweep aside Blackburn Rovers.

With injury concerns consigning Steven Gerrard to the bench, Kuyt partnered Fernando Torres in attack for Saturday’s visit of the Lancastrians.

And while the Dutchman was not among the goalscorers in a 4-0 romp for the Anfield outfit, his performance earned the plaudits of the opposition.

“Torres is such a big threat with his running in behind you,” said Blackburn midfielder David Dunn. “Obviously as a team we knew that and dropped deeper. He makes those runs and is such a handful.

“But Dirk Kuyt, in my opinion, is just as important. He is such an unselfish player and gives just as much to the side. He plays a number of positions, works his socks off for the team and never stops running.

“He's very, very good, but maybe doesn't always get as much credit as he deserves.”

Torres set Liverpool on their way with two goals before the interval, the first of which was a genuine goal of the season contender.

The Spaniard has started only 15 of 32 league games this season but has now netted 11 goals in that time.

And while Dunn is convinced the availability of Torres for longer periods would have enhanced Liverpool ’s title chances, he believes every challenger is affected by injuries to key members.

“I'm sure they would have got a lot more points if he hadn't been injured for parts of the season, without a shadow of a doubt,” he added. “He's a top, top player.

“I know what people will say, but I'm not sure it would have made a difference in where the title ends up though. United have had their injury problems, likewise Chelsea , and over the season I think that balances out. The best team will win the league over the whole course of things.”

Dunn added: “We set our stall out, but weren't great. Take nothing away from Liverpool , they're a top side, and that's why they are where they are. But it was disappointing.“

So basically we are in agreement, he is unselfish and works his socks off for the team, but that really doesn't justify him being a winger

[dww]

I think the analogy has a lot of merit I just take different things from it. Kuyt doesn't play as a traditional winger but is more effective than anyone except possibly Ronaldo in the PL in that position in terms of producing goals and assists. A lot of people though choose to focus purely on the workrate and not the end product because they believe a priori that a traditional style winger would be better even if they can't point to more than a single example of it being the case.

[1 True Red]

I think the analogy has a lot of merit I just take different things from it. Kuyt doesn't play as a traditional winger but is more effective than anyone except possibly Ronaldo in the PL in that position in terms of producing goals and assists. A lot of people though choose to focus purely on the workrate and not the end product because they believe a priori that a traditional style winger would be better even if they can't point to more than a single example of it being the case.

Spot on dww

[DannyMan2006]

I think the analogy has a lot of merit I just take different things from it. Kuyt doesn't play as a traditional winger but is more effective than anyone except possibly Ronaldo in the PL in that position in terms of producing goals and assists. A lot of people though choose to focus purely on the workrate and not the end product because they believe a priori that a traditional style winger would be better even if they can't point to more than a single example of it being the case.

Kuyt is great, but in certain circumstances he is useless. It's a shame babel has been hit and miss as he would compliment Kuyt very well.

I agree with you that Kuyt has good end product. But perhaps you also miss the bigger picture. One left back is all that is needed to track Kuyt. A faster, tricky, player such as Lennon or Babel requires to players to track.

Now they could have a **** time of it all game, but if they are being marked by two players space will come elsewhere, be it in the middle or allowing the full back to bomb past.

Now in an ideal world we would find a winger in the same mould as Lennon or Babel who could take Kuyts first team position, but they are few and far between. As such I think we just need an alternative to Kuyt. It's a squad game so lets use it and pick the player required for the type of game.

Stoke at home? Our speedy winger. Arsenal away? Dirk Kuyt. Etc.

[dww]

Kuyt is great, but in certain circumstances he is useless. It's a shame babel has been hit and miss as he would compliment Kuyt very well.

I agree with you that Kuyt has good end product. But perhaps you also miss the bigger picture. One left back is all that is needed to track Kuyt. A faster, tricky, player such as Lennon or Babel requires to players to track.

Now they could have a **** time of it all game, but if they are being marked by two players space will come elsewhere, be it in the middle or allowing the full back to bomb past.

Now in an ideal world we would find a winger in the same mould as Lennon or Babel who could take Kuyts first team position, but they are few and far between. As such I think we just need an alternative to Kuyt. It's a squad game so lets use it and pick the player required for the type of game.

Stoke at home? Our speedy winger. Arsenal away? Dirk Kuyt. Etc.

But Lennon never offers a goal threat. I'm not saying that Kuyt is the perfect player but he occupies more players more consistently than Lennon who most teams let go most of the time and don't double mark as his final ball is poor.

I agree that a speedy winger would be a useful addition to the squad but I really think there are very few who would displace Kuyt for the majority of games.

[Roboklopp]

mods please split this thread

[Roboklopp]

mods also please ban AA for spelling centre "center". clown