Are we better than Man Utd?

[Redspin]

That doesn't make it right. It's just one interpretation of the available facts.

And now you've started fixing the stats to make your interpretation appear more persuasive.

I'm not interpreting the facts, I'm quoting them. Show one thing in the stats I provided that is incorrect and I'll agree with you.

[Redspin]

My argument was never that they're better than us in a goalscoring sense.

Overall though, we've got 2 players capable of scoring lots of goals for us, they have 4. You can certainly question how well each respective front line is performing, and it's beyond doubt that our pair of SG & FT have performed better this season.

I would take issue with your view that they have four players capable of scoring lots of goals. The facts show that they have just one, Ronaldo, while we have two in Torres and Gerrard. Rooney has never been prolific, Tevez even less so and Berbatov ditto

[DannyMan2006]

I would take issue with your view that they have four players capable of scoring lots of goals. The facts show that they have just one, Ronaldo, while we have two in Torres and Gerrard. Rooney has never been prolific, Tevez even less so and Berbatov ditto

It's more about depth mate. If one of Gerrard or Torres get injured or are out of form we have one player to rely on. The Mancs on the flip side still have another three they can hope will be fit and in form.

Even Berbatov, who the Mnacs are starting to hate, had his moments this season, getting some crucial goals during there 11 straight wins. Ronaldo has been up and down. Rooney has blown hot and cold.

We may have a better forward pairing, but they have more players who on their day are unplayable.

[Redspin]

They're doing better in the league, the league cup, the fa cup, the champions league and are far richer than us. Anyone who genuinely thinks we are better is probably a cretin. There isn't much between us but at the highest level, every slight improvement takes a massive effort so we're still quite a way off.

What puzzles me is why they are better. How can a team with regulars like ji-sung, fletcher, carrick and hargreaves be doing so well. They'd be subs at best at any other premiership club. Add to that the average Tevez, over rated rooney, and geriatric van der sar and their success must all come down to the man we hate the most. Ferguson.

You missed out one thing in your list of superlatives about the scum that a probable cretin would like to mention: they are far more in debt than us

[Redspin]

i would say that claiming to be better than a side top of the league in the cl semis - fa cup semi finalists world club winners and cc winners already this season is a bit confusing tbf

or on what basis could it rightfully be claimed

I suppose you could chuck in the fact that we score more goals than them and have given them a football lesson twice this season

[Redspin]

It's more about depth mate. If one of Gerrard or Torres get injured or are out of form we have one player to rely on. The Mancs on the flip side still have another three they can hope will be fit and in form.

Even Berbatov, who the Mnacs are starting to hate, had his moments this season, getting some crucial goals during there 11 straight wins. Ronaldo has been up and down. Rooney has blown hot and cold.

We may have a better forward pairing, but they have more players who on their day are unplayable.

I know what you're getting at, but Berbatov has never been unplayable in any game for them, nor has Tevez. Rooney has had a few good games - more very average ones. Ronaldo has been in and out but is clearly their most effective attacker. I just don't agree that his three co-attackers have merited anything other than "average-to-good" this season (average-to-bad in Berbatov's case) and I also don't see how this constitutes greater depth than what we have. If all of the latter three were tearing up trees I'd agree with you, but I suspect their massively over-rated reputation in the media has managed to penetrate even these forums. What gets my goat is the throw-away expression about them in comparison with us "they have more match-winners" (copyright Sky TV 2009), without an explanation of what this means backed up by examples. Wherever I look I just don't see it - beyond the media mantra that always goes unchallenged

[Shanks]

Maybe people could just put either 'yes', 'no' or 'equal'.
I'm mainly interested in people's final answer as it were, rather than the reasoning.

To say outright, 'we are better' is nonsensical because every piece of tangible evidence refutes it.

Isn't that answering the poll and your original question though?

[Neil Young]

I'm not interpreting the facts, I'm quoting them. Show one thing in the stats I provided that is incorrect and I'll agree with you.

I was referring to this:

If you take away the 5 they got at WBA (no big deal as the league's whipping boys have conceded 63 goals this season) they have only scored 15 goals in their other 15 away games.

It seems to me you were selecting some "facts" and discounting others simply to strengthen your position.

The stats you quote may be correct but your interpretation is partial. As in "lies, damned lies and statistics," you know?

[Elvoz]

I suppose you could chuck in the fact that we score more goals than them and have given them a football lesson twice this season

indeed you could
then of course boro fans will say they beat us last time and you see that argument is shot down
great we played them twice and won
i would of taken gettin beaten twice but winning the league meself
but im in the minority of course and imo crowing how you beat them twice only actually "bigs" them up and makes us look small

but **** what do i know

[Red_Polo]

Surely if we're equal, the answer to the question is no?

I've said no, because whilst I'd fancy us in one-off games I don't think we have the depth to be quite as good as them when it comes to challenging on all fronts. I also think with no changes to personnel for either team next season they would have the potential to improve their points tally in the league more than we do. Unfortunately. We're gaining though, which is the crucial thing. Next season if all goes to plan we could truly establish ourselves as better.

[Craig_H]

I would take issue with your view that they have four players capable of scoring lots of goals. The facts show that they have just one, Ronaldo, while we have two in Torres and Gerrard. Rooney has never been prolific, Tevez even less so and Berbatov ditto

If you genuinely dont think Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov are capable of scoring goals, then we have little to debate.

The facts show that all of them are easily capable of netting 20 odd a season but i wouldnt expect you to let facts get in the way of bias.

[Craig_H]

Isn't that answering the poll and your original question though?

It's my opinion on the question, yes. Is that allowed?

[Craig_H]

Surely if we're equal, the answer to the question is no?

I've said no, because whilst I'd fancy us in one-off games I don't think we have the depth to be quite as good as them when it comes to challenging on all fronts. I also think with no changes to personnel for either team next season they would have the potential to improve their points tally in the league more than we do. Unfortunately. We're gaining though, which is the crucial thing. Next season if all goes to plan we could truly establish ourselves as better.

you're right, in a pedantic way

Yeah, it should be more like do you think: a) we're better b) they're better or c) equal

Agree with your assessment of things too.

[bradsdad]

they just win at the moment because of two things.....more strength in depth and luck

[red g]

Surely if we're equal, the answer to the question is no?

I've said no, because whilst I'd fancy us in one-off games I don't think we have the depth to be quite as good as them when it comes to challenging on all fronts. I also think with no changes to personnel for either team next season they would have the potential to improve their points tally in the league more than we do. Unfortunately. We're gaining though, which is the crucial thing. Next season if all goes to plan we could truly establish ourselves as better.

i think we are now down to finite changes, injuries and luck to who wins the premier league.

THis season with our points tally we have proved that we are a match for scum.......and potential champions. I think Chelsea's couple of premiership wins raised the bar to an unrealistic points tally and scums points tally which has been the same for the last 3 seasons at this point is the more realistic aim.