Why why why?

[Marky]

I've read and listened to a few bits and bobs over the past few days on the forthcoming premiership season and i'm genuinely ****ed off with the manner in which these so called experts are dismissing us so freely. Andy Gray's words straight after the final whistle yesterday really got my blood boiling when he said 'on the evidence of today i think United and Chelsea will be the teams to beat once again' hello we finished above Chelsea last season you ****ing dickhead, weren't far away from piping United either.
I'm not usually one that reads too much into what the likes of Gray etc say but i'm baffled as to why they just never consider us when it comes to being big contenders for the title.

[dww]

To be fair they are the teams to beat as they have challenged consistently in recent years and they both looked pretty strong in that game when they were both obviously up against decent opposition.

In general I also haven't seen us dismissed in the media. I think we now seem to be viewed as third favourites by most commentators which I'm not sure I agree with but they all feel we are one of three teams with a genuine chance which seems fair enough. To me both United and Chelsea looked like they might be vulnerable as well as they looked like good teams. They had aspects of teams in transition and we don't know how that will effect them or how long it will last. The problem is the same is true of us and in the last few years it has been apparent that we have a shallower squad than they do and we start the season with a number of injury worries.

[FatTony]

I've read and listened to a few bits and bobs over the past few days on the forthcoming premiership season and i'm genuinely ****ed off with the manner in which these so called experts are dismissing us so freely. Andy Gray's words straight after the final whistle yesterday really got my blood boiling when he said 'on the evidence of today i think United and Chelsea will be the teams to beat once again' hello we finished above Chelsea last season you ****ing dickhead, weren't far away from piping United either.
I'm not usually one that reads too much into what the likes of Gray etc say but i'm baffled as to why they just never consider us when it comes to being big contenders for the title.

We did, but they had a nightmare period with Scolari. Ancelotti will be a different kettle of fish.

Both Manu and Chelsea have far superior defences, Chelsea have a better midfield and we have the best strike partnership, but then Man U have more attacking options.

We'll finish 3rd. Chelsea 1st, Manu 2nd and us 3rd.

[JohnDoe]

We did, but they had a nightmare period with Scolari. Ancelotti will be a different kettle of fish.

Ancelotti won the Serie A once in about 11 seasons of managing top clubs. That record is poor and there is no indication he'll be any better than Scolari. I also just can't see a new manager from a foreign league coming in here and settling immediately in the English game. His system will also show its flaws long term.

Both Manu and Chelsea have far superior defences,

I agree but it's not as big a gap as it was last season.

Chelsea have a better midfield and we have the best strike partnership, but then Man U have more attacking options.

Chelsea have a stronger midfield but they have no creativity. At all. How do Man United have more attacking options? They have Michael Owen as back up (giggle), and kids (Macheda and Welbeck). Their wide areas are also by far the weakest out of the three.

[nebbers]

Well it was as he was commentating on Man U vs Chelsea, so it was a relevant comment at that time. Plus if you finish above Man U and Chelsea, you win the Premiership.


He's still a git though.

[FatTony]

Ancelotti won the Serie A once in about 11 seasons of managing top clubs. That record is poor and there is no indication he'll be any better than Scolari. I also just can't see a new manager from a foreign league coming in here and settling immediately in the English game. His system will also show its flaws long term.



I agree but it's not as big a gap as it was last season.



Chelsea have a stronger midfield but they have no creativity. At all. How do Man United have more attacking options? They have Michael Owen as back up (giggle), and kids (Macheda and Welbeck). Their wide areas are also by far the weakest out of the three.

Scolari couldn't handle the attitude of the players at club level which is very different to coaching a national team. He had well documented fall outs, especially with Drogba. Ancelotti will not have a problem with this. Hiddink did a fantastic job, and I have a feeling that Ancelotti will do the same. Whilst Chelsea may not be over run with creativity (though I'd disagree that they have none with the likes of Joe Cole, Decco, Lampard), their overall strength in depth across the field more than makes up for it.

I was referring to the attacking options of Manutd as a whole, not just the strikeforce, so we're looking at Berbatov, Shrek, Owen, Nani, Macheda, Giggs, Anderson, Park and Valencia. It may be similar in strength to our line up, but I think they edge it in quality and creativity, and of course they're sat on a far superior back 4 IMO.

[Scratch]

Both Manu and Chelsea have far superior defences,

I agree but it's not as big a gap as it was last season.

Our line up of
Johnson
Carragher
Agger (Skrtel)
Insua

more than compares with that of United
Fabio
Rio
Vidic
Evra

and i'm not sure who the Chelsea RB is but we compare pretty favourably with the other three
RB
Terry
Carvalhio
Cole

So i would disagree that we are defensively inferior.

Midfield wise, we've yet to see how Aquilani fairs, but i'm pretty happy with a 3 of Mascher/Lucas/Gerrard with Kuyt and Riera/Benny on the left, both supporting Torres and Gerrard.

It's gonna be close...

[JohnDoe]

Scolari couldn't handle the attitude of the players at club level which is very different to coaching a national team. He had well documented fall outs, especially with Drogba. Ancelotti will not have a problem with this. Hiddink did a fantastic job, and I have a feeling that Ancelotti will do the same. Whilst Chelsea may not be over run with creativity (though I'd disagree that they have none with the likes of Joe Cole, Decco, Lampard), their overall strength in depth across the field more than makes up for it.

Joe Cole and Deco will be bench players for them. Lampard isn't exactly creative.

I was referring to the attacking options of Manutd as a whole, not just the strikeforce, so we're looking at Berbatov, Shrek, Owen, Nani, Macheda, Giggs, Anderson, Park and Valencia. It may be similar in strength to our line up, but I think they edge it in quality and creativity, and of course they're sat on a far superior back 4 IMO.

Really? Kuyt, Benayoun and Riera are better than everything they have in the wide areas. Nani, Valencia and Park aren't even close. Park was important for them to balance Ronaldo on the other flank but he's a bit redundant now, his finishing is also horrendous, won't help now that they're missing goals in their midfield. Nani is extremely inconsistent and unreliable and Valencia has scored 7 goals in the last 3 years. Anderson has become a defensive midfielder for them since it seems like he's forgotten how to shoot the ball. Macheda is 18. Gerrard/Torres > Berba/Shrek

Edit: Oh and Owen will be injured half the season.

[FatTony]

Our line up of
Johnson
Carragher
Agger (Skrtel)
Insua

more than compares with that of United
Fabio
Rio
Vidic
Evra

and i'm not sure who the Chelsea RB is but we compare pretty favourably with the other three
RB
Terry
Carvalhio
Cole

So i would disagree that we are defensively inferior.

Midfield wise, we've yet to see how Aquilani fairs, but i'm pretty happy with a 3 of Mascher/Lucas/Gerrard with Kuyt and Riera/Benny on the left, both supporting Torres and Gerrard.

It's gonna be close...

I have to say that I think anyone who believes our back line is not inferior to that of chelsea or the mancs is a little bit biased.

Terry & Carvalho / Ferdinand & Vidic

These are both proven and imo far superior to Carra & Skrytel (who I really don't rate, his positioning is poor and he frequently stays rooted to the ground). I'm worried for Agger, he did look fantastic in his first season but he's had so many injury problems its going to be a big ask.


If you then look at both of their lb's & rb's they're proven quality at the highest level again, especially Chelsea. Players who know what it takes to win things. We only have Carra with that experience.

Midfields are far more comparable.

[JohnDoe]

Our line up of
Johnson
Carragher
Agger (Skrtel)
Insua

more than compares with that of United
O'Shea, Brown, Twins
Rio
Vidic
Evra

and i'm not sure who the Chelsea RB is but we compare pretty favourably with the other three
Bosingwa
Terry
Carvalhio
Cole

I love Carragher, but he isn't as good as Ferdinand or Terry. Agger is class but has yet to have an injury free season. Skrtel doesn't match Vidic and Carvalho. We're good at right back and Insua will get there but right now A.Cole and Evra are established left backs of the highest level and as a result ahead of him. We've got the best keeper though.

[RedReet]

Both Manu and Chelsea have far superior defences, Chelsea have a better midfield and we have the best strike partnership, but then Man U have more attacking options.

I have to say that I think anyone who believes our back line is not inferior to that of chelsea or the mancs is a little bit biased.

Chelsea’s and United’s defence are arguably better, but to say ‘far superior’ is a bit much.

Over the past 4 years, we’ve conceded 148 league goals, United 147 and Chelsea 141. I’m sure if we took into consideration our CL form, it would be a lot closer.

If Skrtel and Agger were to stay fit for the majority of the season, there is no reason to believe this pattern would change.

[-V-]

Because we have not improved our squad yet thats why. Torres is our only real option in attack and he is always picking up knocks and injuries. Until we bring in a top class striker we aren't going to title winners

[FatTony]

Chelsea’s and United’s defence are arguably better, but to say ‘far superior’ is a bit much.

Over the past 4 years, we’ve conceded 148 league goals, United 147 and Chelsea 141. I’m sure if we took into consideration our CL form, it would be a lot closer.

If Skrtel and Agger were to stay fit for the majority of the season, there is no reason to believe this pattern would change.

Why pick the last 4 years when Agger and Skrtel weren't here? Take last season or the last 2 when they were, and both Manu & Chelsea conceded less when they both had to play more games (in other competitions) along the way. You could also argue that the conservative style of football we played in the first half of the season naturally reduces the chance of conceding goals.

Also, when I say far superior, I'm not just talking about goals conceded, I'm talking about the footballing ability and experience at the highest level. The likes of Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Cole, Bossingwa, Terry and Carvalho have experience at the top and offer more in other areas.

I'll be interested to see how Johnson does when he has the pressure of a big club on his shoulders. Insua looks a decent prospect. Carra is a legend, but his form has dropped over the last two seasons. I don't rate Skrtel. Agger is the only player I would put in the same class as that group, but thats based on the potential I saw in his first season. He may never return that promise.

[tsb]

I see the reasons being that we haven't won it in nearly two decades and our squad is weaker after the departure of Alonso despite the arrival of Johnson. No real cover for Torres and a new central midfielder who is injured. Utd's squad depth got them over the line last year with nobodies like Macheda chipping in with crucial goals.

I would rather be in an underdog position that proclaimed favourites before a ball has been kicked.

[Scratch]

Because we have not improved our squad yet thats why. Torres is our only real option in attack and he is always picking up knocks and injuries. Until we bring in a top class striker we aren't going to title winners

I think we have...Johnson is a big improvement over Arbeloa, and Alonso, altho a great player, played very deep and very one paced, so i believe that Aquilani will be a bigger player for us, playing in a more advanced role. And Lucas, in his more advanced role has also impressed so far, albeit it only in preseason.

As for Torres always picking up knocks, i think that's debatable...he had a couple last season, but so did Gerrard. However, the season before he was fine, and this season, who knows...also, N'Gog has a year under his belt, Kuyt seems to be more positive in front of goal and Babel may (MAY) make a difference.

Less negativity before the start of the season please.