THE Lucas thread

[Exiled_red]

I think it has more to do with the fact he isn't good enough.

I think it's because we are missing Alonso and this problem would have arisen regardless of who came into that role, Lucas is the first one who has taken the poisoned challace if you like.

Aquilani is in a great position now, by the time he comes into the team everyone will have forgotten how good Alonso is and will just see him as an improvement on Lucas

[wiw]

I wish Rashid was here

[DannyMan2006]

Carlton Palmer played for England, what's your point?

Actually, I can see why Dunga rates him, he's like a clone of himself without the fight.

What's Carlton Palmer got to do with a comparison of Denilson and Lucas? What's the England team got to do with them when they're both brazilian?

Denilson when he has played has done nothing to help Arsenal finish anywhere near the top of the table. He's a decent player who will get better, but so is Lucas.

When I have seen Denilson play he has looked very average, but I don't know what his attributes are and whether or not he is being played in the right position.

Lucas on the other hand is a player that I do know and one who is being asked to do a job he is not capable of. He's a decent player, but not capable of running our team. But what do people expect?

[Roberto Bobbolino]

Point is, Whats above there.. Lucas singled out, from the many dire performances tonight..

or is this just a big co-incidence..

Might be a clue in there somewhere.

[Exiled_red]

Lucas has not adapted to the formation. He is occupying the same positions Alonso used to without the passing ability and vision to effect the game in the same way.

Because he can not do what Alonso did he needs to take up different positions. Rafa himself stated that his idea was for one of the midfielders to occupy a position closer to the forwards. Because if you do that you don't have to be able to pass it to feet from forty yards.

At the moment it is like a goal poacher trying to play as a hold up striker. Gary Lineker was an exceptional player but he would not be capable of dropping deep and winning flick ons. Lucas needs to take up positions where he can be effective.

[Exiled_red]

What's Carlton Palmer got to do with a comparison of Denilson and Lucas? What's the England team got to do with them when they're both brazilian?

Denilson when he has played has done nothing to help Arsenal finish anywhere near the top of the table. He's a decent player who will get better, but so is Lucas.

When I have seen Denilson play he has looked very average, but I don't know what his attributes are and whether or not he is being played in the right position.

Lucas on the other hand is a player that I do know and one who is being asked to do a job he is not capable of. He's a decent player, but not capable of running our team. But what do people expect?

[Jaymo]

Might be a clue in there somewhere.

What that everyone else who played poor tonight is above criticism.

mate **** it, we'll agree to disagree, because i cant be arsed arguing.

[Roberto Bobbolino]

Maybe those trying to protect Lucas for the sake of it can come up with some reasons why he deserves his place in a Liverpool team instead of using these vague excuses about systems and departed players. He's either good enough or he's not.

[tomasjj]

he is ok

timed his runs forward a bit poorly today and left masch with lots of ground to cover

takes too many touches and too much time before releasing the ball
which ties in with

not able to find sg or kuyt betwen the lines before they/him are closed down

and with

passes it too much sideways and not enough forward

decent player, but he is not the quality of the player we had there last season, and it is unfair to compare them

[DannyMan2006]

Isn't that something that comes with game experience though? There were questions about Alonso's ability for a couple of years when he was under pressure, people saying he wanted too much time on the ball etc. Maybe the issue is the same with Lucas?

I could argue that Alonso also showed he was capable of being a sublime player at times. But I will not.

Maybe Lucas will become an exceptional playmaker like Alonso and just needs a couple of years to develop. I doubt he will become a playmaker, but I'll carry on and ignore this fact.

What can not be ignored is that he is not ready to play this role NOW. Are team was ready to win the title, do we now have to wait another two years with Lucas in that role until we are ready again?

I have complete faith Lucas will be a good player. But he is not capable of playing the role being asked of him right now. As such he needs to be taken out of the team. He's had a chance, and he hasn't delivered. Get Gerrard in there until Aquilani is ready and allow Lucas to develop into the player he can be with odd games here and there.

[Roberto Bobbolino]

The goal summed him up. He's a liability when the team isn't performing.

[Exiled_red]

I could argue that Alonso also showed he was capable of being a sublime player at times. But I will not.

Maybe Lucas will become an exceptional playmaker like Alonso and just needs a couple of years to develop. I doubt he will become a playmaker, but I'll carry on and ignore this fact.

What can not be ignored is that he is not ready to play this role NOW. Are team was ready to win the title, do we now have to wait another two years with Lucas in that role until we are ready again?

I have complete faith Lucas will be a good player. But he is not capable of playing the role being asked of him right now. As such he needs to be taken out of the team. He's had a chance, and he hasn't delivered. Get Gerrard in there until Aquilani is ready and allow Lucas to develop into the player he can be with odd games here and there.

I meant that Alonso too had problems or questions were asked about his ability to play under pressure, I agree that Lucas and Alonso are completely different players, Alonso is a play maker and Lucas isn't. I've been saying for a while that in order to get the best out of Lucas we need to let him play his natural game not try to force him into copying Xabi's game and trying to make him into Xabi mk2

[DannyMan2006]

Maybe those trying to protect Lucas for the sake of it can come up with some reasons why he deserves his place in a Liverpool team instead of using these vague excuses about systems and departed players. He's either good enough or he's not.

Football is all about systems these days.

There used to be a time when a CM was a CM and that was it. Now days there are more specialist roles about.

Lucas is not a bad player, he is just not good enough to play in the role he has been given. If we played a different system he may well be ready to play first team football, not that this helps us much I understand.

[-V-]

Most of the time he is no use at home games. He doesn't play the ball early from deep like Xabi did and he doesnt drive forward with the ball. He was very poor tonight but i can see a use for him still in away games

It all comes down to Aqualani not being fit and us still not having another capable striker therefore Gerrard is forced to play high and gets isolated. No point having Gerrard in the hole if both our CM's create nothing

[Roberto Bobbolino]

It's also about ability, or used to be until we became obsessed with systems.

I'll leave you with a quote from RAWK:

Lucas is a better central midfielder than Gerrard.

Good night.