Lucas

[Maxiedge]

I do take your point that sometimes getting the right players playing as a unit is more important than individual talent (although the Nicky Butt example is probably not the best as he was past his best and therefore moved on, don't you think?).

You mention role in the team but I don't even get what type of player he is. Is he a Brazilian defensive midfielder like Gilberto an all round midfielder or will he develop his game to become an attacking midfielder? His development is a bit strange too as shows real signs of promise one game and then for the next couple of months sort of stagnates and regresses and just when question marks are raised he'll put in another tidy performance. The only assist he's made that springs to mind was last season away to Newcastle (which was class by the way) but he's had plenty of opprtunities this season (started every game?) and I can't really think of anything noteworthy he's done in an attacking sense (apart from a freekick assist). Much of this could be down to the fact as you mentioned we really don't seem to have a style of football this season. The midfield seems to get completely bypassed with the long ball and there has been absolutely no dynamic between Lucas and Mascherano apart from getting in each others way. Granted, this does not help.

You make a good argument for Lucas and I hope you're more right than I am but at the moment I'm still going to take my corner and say he's a weak link.

[squaddie]

You make a good argument for Lucas and I hope you're more right than I am but at the moment I'm still going to take my corner and say he's a weak link.

Fairplay your entitled to your opinion. But i just cant comprehend how you can come to that conlusion. He's been one of our best players this season only second to Pepe and Torres (goal wise alone).

[squaddie]

Or third even.

[Maxiedge]

Or third even.

He's stood out from time to time in a disjointed, under performing side because of his effort but I can't help but think there's a link there.

[squaddie]

He's stood out from time to time in a disjointed, under performing side because of his effort but I can't help but think there's a link there.

Ok i see your point. But surely thats enough to cut the lad a bit of slack (one of few players who's kept his head in a garbage season). Like i say your entitled to your opinion, but to say he's been a weak link for us seems ludicrous to me.... ****in ell, you had another 8 or 9 players to point the finget at as the 'weak link'.

[RedReet]

I do take your point that sometimes getting the right players playing as a unit is more important than individual talent (although the Nicky Butt example is probably not the best as he was past his best and therefore moved on, don't you think?).

You mention role in the team but I don't even get what type of player he is. Is he a Brazilian defensive midfielder like Gilberto an all round midfielder or will he develop his game to become an attacking midfielder? His development is a bit strange too as shows real signs of promise one game and then for the next couple of months sort of stagnates and regresses and just when question marks are raised he'll put in another tidy performance. The only assist he's made that springs to mind was last season away to Newcastle (which was class by the way) but he's had plenty of opprtunities this season (started every game?) and I can't really think of anything noteworthy he's done in an attacking sense (apart from a freekick assist). Much of this could be down to the fact as you mentioned we really don't seem to have a style of football this season. The midfield seems to get completely bypassed with the long ball and there has been absolutely no dynamic between Lucas and Mascherano apart from getting in each others way. Granted, this does not help.

You make a good argument for Lucas and I hope you're more right than I am but at the moment I'm still going to take my corner and say he's a weak link.

When has this happened?

[BrianF80]

Absolutely. I'm his biggest fan, but I wanted him off.

To be fair I watched the game again and he wasn't half as bad as I thought. He just gave the ball away a few times, casually, when I was at my most highly strung.

[Redspin]

Thought he was absolute turd tonight, his worst performance in a while.

I'm a big fan of his but I have to agree with you. It was his least effective performance of the season. But the lad's been very consistent so he's entitled to an off-day

[Maxiedge]

When has this happened?

Can I just firstly say that I'm not here to vent my frustration on this season on one player. I will give Lucas 100% support and really admire his effort and the passion he shows for the club. I'm just saying it how I see it at the moment.

The point is, he really hasn't moved his game on. I think it's been a great opportunity for him in the last 5 months to pull a few strings in midfield but he still looks like he doesn't know what to do with the ball. He's not giving the opposition anything to think about or worry about. If he's there just to break up play then we're selling ourselves short by playing 2 out and out ball winners. I think most midfelders would enjoy their battle with our Lucas.

[Redspin]

You make completely valid points but I still think Lucas is a weak link while Mascherano can be part of a title winning side.

That doesn't really make sense, as I can't recall a game when they've both played where Lucas wasn't much better than Mascherano, so it's hard to see what you base your assertion on. Even against Spurs, when Lucas was off the pace, Mascherano was also below par, so I wouldn't say he played any better

[Kenneth]

That doesn't really make sense, as I can't recall a game when they've both played where Lucas wasn't much better than Mascherano, so it's hard to see what you base your assertion on. Even against Spurs, when Lucas was off the pace, Mascherano was also below par, so I wouldn't say he played any better

Against Spurs, Mascherano played well. If they weren't playing together, but we played Aquilani in the middle for example, which would be a reasonable thing to do if we werent' so defensive minded, Mascherano would play the support role better than Lucas. He would cover the ground in fron of the back four and let Aquilani ponce around with some freedom. Lucas would not perform the role as well imo.

[Redspin]

I do take your point that sometimes getting the right players playing as a unit is more important than individual talent (although the Nicky Butt example is probably not the best as he was past his best and therefore moved on, don't you think?).

You mention role in the team but I don't even get what type of player he is. Is he a Brazilian defensive midfielder like Gilberto an all round midfielder or will he develop his game to become an attacking midfielder? His development is a bit strange too as shows real signs of promise one game and then for the next couple of months sort of stagnates and regresses and just when question marks are raised he'll put in another tidy performance. The only assist he's made that springs to mind was last season away to Newcastle (which was class by the way) but he's had plenty of opprtunities this season (started every game?) and I can't really think of anything noteworthy he's done in an attacking sense (apart from a freekick assist). Much of this could be down to the fact as you mentioned we really don't seem to have a style of football this season. The midfield seems to get completely bypassed with the long ball and there has been absolutely no dynamic between Lucas and Mascherano apart from getting in each others way. Granted, this does not help.

You make a good argument for Lucas and I hope you're more right than I am but at the moment I'm still going to take my corner and say he's a weak link.

Why not apply the same yardstick to others as well as Lucas, if you consider that he offers nothing noteworthy in an attacking sense? He has one assist, as you say, but that's all Mascherano has too. What else has Masch done in an attacking sense that outshines Lucas?

Last season when he played a lot less than this - and less than either Mascherano or Alonso - he managed two assists to only one by Masherano. Even Alonso only managed three assists out of our 77 goals.

Lucas also scored last season while Mascherano didn't, so I fail to see how he can be criticised for offering little in an attacking sense when the same criticism is not levelled at his more illustrious - and much more expensive - central midfield team-mates. But, as someone once said - "there's none so blind as he who will not see"

[RedReet]

Can I just firstly say that I'm not here to vent my frustration on this season on one player. I will give Lucas 100% support and really admire his effort and the passion he shows for the club. I'm just saying it how I see it at the moment.

The point is, he really hasn't moved his game on. I think it's been a great opportunity for him in the last 5 months to pull a few strings in midfield but he still looks like he doesn't know what to do with the ball. He's not giving the opposition anything to think about or worry about. If he's there just to break up play then we're selling ourselves short by playing 2 out and out ball winners. I think most midfelders would enjoy their battle with our Lucas.

I can’t agree with that at all. The defensive side of his game has come on leaps and bounds, so much so people are happy enough for him to step into Mascherano’s shoes if he does join Barca. He was quite lightweight and easily pushed off the ball when he first joined, and has bulked up impressively. His passing is excellent and I’m pretty sure he’ll soon recover some of the attacking threat that he showed for Gremio (possibly after he gets his first goal this season?).

I really don’t see this not knowing what to do with the ball either, I think he’s very comfortable with possession. I think Lucas has shown plenty of times that if people make the runs for him he can pick them out, but obviously if there is no movement ahead of him, he has to keep it simple.

[kris90210]

A lot of people who wrote Lucas off last season have been won over (even those people who dont rate him must have noticed that), so I dont think there can be any question that as a player he has improved.

Bear in mind, that he has improved from a position where his OWN fans booed him coming on to the pitch (****ing disgracful behaviour by the way), to this season, where a fair ammount of people rate him as one of our players of the season.

Love him or hate him, that is clear improvment. As someone said earlier, Lucas has displayed incredible professionalism and work ethic to turn things around for himself. He's still a young guy, and if he can continue to improve at this rate then he has the potential to become an excellent player for us.

I have to agree with Shaggy when he says that if his name were Stevie Spearing, we'd all be loving him.

[Maxiedge]

I can’t agree with that at all. The defensive side of his game has come on leaps and bounds, so much so people are happy enough for him to step into Mascherano’s shoes if he does join Barca. He was quite lightweight and easily pushed off the ball when he first joined, and has bulked up impressively. His passing is excellent and I’m pretty sure he’ll soon recover some of the attacking threat that he showed for Gremio (possibly after he gets his first goal this season?).

I really don’t see this not knowing what to do with the ball either, I think he’s very comfortable with possession. I think Lucas has shown plenty of times that if people make the runs for him he can pick them out, but obviously if there is no movement ahead of him, he has to keep it simple.

That's the point there. I generally agree with the points you make. The difference is that you seem more confident of this happening than I am.