The New Manager Thread

[Craig_H]

When was the last time? It's been almost a year. Not just a blip of a few weeks, one whole year of rubbish.

Also, what if he doesn't like the next manager either?

Whenever it was, there HAS been a last time.

I dont think it's about 'liking' the manager, but i'm now pretty sure if that's the terminology we're using, he'd 'like' just about anyone more than Rafa.

It seems obvious to me that Gerrard's had enough of the same tried and failed methods of the last 5 years, and even more so of the completely refusal of the manager to adapt.

[Craig_H]

By the same token Rafa hasn't got **** overnight eh? Gerrard's got too much influence and a bad one at it. Performances like last night have not been the only one. Rafa's the one who calls the shot and if there's one he has to call, it is to sack Gerrard.

Rafa's never won the PL and only challenged for it one year out of his reign. His title challenge was the exception to the rule.

Gerrard's proved in the past, time and time again, that he's world class and his poor performances have been the exception to the rule.

V had it spot on, you have some unwavering love of Benitez and quite LITERALLY, no matter what he did, you'd back it. Whatever it was.

[Lecter]

A number of things. If you remember, we had a disproportionate number of games where the opposition were reduced to 10 men - something which doesnt usually happen to such an extent.

We had a high number of games where we were on course to drop points, but snatched last minute winners, again something which was beyond what you'd normally expect.

Basically, last season, 90% of things went our way at important times, and along with good performances and confidence, this helped us have a good season.

You cant really on 90% of things going your way though.

If last season was reflective of LFC under Benitez, it wouldnt stand out alone as the only season where we challenged for the league. But it does.

So whatever contributed to it, is the exception, not the rule.





Alonso was sold without adequate replacement and unlike the previous season, we didnt have an unrealistic level of things going for us.

What you have to remember is that for a large proportion of last season we had either Gerrard or Torrres and injured or both so whoe knows what could have happened

Also if you want to talk about things going our way last season you could conversely talk about things going against us this season

Beachball anyone?

One could also argue that Alonso wanted to go and so we couldnt prevent it (IMO whatever happened before between himand Rafa he'd have gone to Madrid anyway last summer)

One could also argue that the manager couldnt buy an adequate replacement because of financial constrictions

Its been suggested that Aquilani was bought with very little upfront and a lot of it based on appearances (which I can quite believe)

You initial post suggested that Benitez had reaped what he had sown over the 5 years of his tenure yet last season DESPITE injuries to key players for large proportions of the season we challenged and performed at a decent level using those tactics by that same manage you are ostricising as being negative etc......

[Guest]

Rafa's never won the PL and only challenged for it one year out of his reign. His title challenge was the exception to the rule.

Gerrard's proved in the past, time and time again, that he's world class and his poor performances have been the exception to the rule.

V had it spot on, you have some unwavering love of Benitez and quite LITERALLY, no matter what he did, you'd back it. Whatever it was.

We never had a good enough team to challenge for 1st place and Rafa made us play 'above our level' consistently which is no mean feat. Chelsea and United were always superior.

It's nothing to do with unwavering love for Benitez. I'd love it for him to be sacked and for another manager to come in and proving me right though, I'd love it.

[Lecter]

Totally agree. Steven Gerrard has proved he can achieve the level we want from him. Rafa hasnt.

So Rafa didnt win the Champions League, nor the FA Cup, nor get to the final of another Champions League or finish second last season

I love this re-writing of history its of Sky Sports proportions

[Lecter]

It seems obvious to me that Gerrard's had enough of the same tried and failed methods of the last 5 years, and even more so of the completely refusal of the manager to adapt.

So the manager hasnt adapted??

So tell me who changed Gerrard from a central midfielder to playing just off the front man??

I didnt see Gerrard complaining too much last season when we were challenging nor did I see him calling for the managers head in the summer because he was fed up with the tactics and failed methods of his current manager

This is nonsense just like your assertion that the 5 years under Benitez have been a failure

[Craig_H]

What you have to remember is that for a large proportion of last season we had either Gerrard or Torrres and injured or both so whoe knows what could have happened

Also if you want to talk about things going our way last season you could conversely talk about things going against us this season

Beachball anyone?

One could also argue that Alonso wanted to go and so we couldnt prevent it (IMO whatever happened before between himand Rafa he'd have gone to Madrid anyway last summer)

One could also argue that the manager couldnt buy an adequate replacement because of financial constrictions

Its been suggested that Aquilani was bought with very little upfront and a lot of it based on appearances (which I can quite believe)

You initial post suggested that Benitez had reaped what he had sown over the 5 years of his tenure yet last season DESPITE injuries to key players for large proportions of the season we challenged and performed at a decent level using those tactics by that same manage you are ostricising as being negative etc......

I agree about things going against us this season. I'm not suggesting it's been a 'normal' season in terms of fortune. But we dont help ourselves either, and our playing mentality isnt one that can override poor fortune. We make it harder for ourselves on top of any bad luck.

Disagree about Alonso. Why couldnt we have prevented it? I could argue that it was Rafa's poor judgement that caused the problem in the first place, when he decided to court Barry so publicly. Plenty of us could see what a super player Alonso was, and that whilst his form wasnt good, the class and quality was always there. Instead of publicly telling the world how he planned to replace him (as Rafa was indirectly doing), he might've tried to use some man-management skills to restore Alonso's form.

All that aside, Alonso had a contract and i dont see why we couldnt have kept him for another year, at least. Why could Ferguson do it with Ronaldo but not Rafa with Alonso?

If the manager didnt have the money for an adequate replacement (i can suggest twenty million reasons why this might be debatable), perhaps a striker could've been bought, and we could've reverted to a 442, with SG in CM and a new striker up front.

I very much doubt that Alberto Aquilani is the only player in the world who could've been purchased with a low down payment, and the rest in installments and add-ons.

Regarding last season - again, it was one exception, going well against the grain of the rest of his tenure.

If something works one time out of five or out of six, then i'm not personally convinced by this, that it's a fantastic piece of methodology.

[Lecter]

Rafa's never won the PL and only challenged for it one year out of his reign. His title challenge was the exception to the rule.

Gerrard's proved in the past, time and time again, that he's world class and his poor performances have been the exception to the rule.

V had it spot on, you have some unwavering love of Benitez and quite LITERALLY, no matter what he did, you'd back it. Whatever it was.

Whereas you appear to have a total hatred for Benitez and seem not able to look at his record or managerial performance objectively

Frankly I dont care whether Benitez stays or goes but anyone thinking that he goes magically transforms our players into highly motivated, attacking machines is completely clueless

The rot at our club goes far deeper than just Benitez

[Craig_H]

So the manager hasnt adapted??

So tell me who changed Gerrard from a central midfielder to playing just off the front man??

I didnt see Gerrard complaining too much last season when we were challenging nor did I see him calling for the managers head in the summer because he was fed up with the tactics and failed methods of his current manager

This is nonsense just like your assertion that the 5 years under Benitez have been a failure

I'm not talking about players in positions, i'm talking about his basic footballing principles, involving tempo, movement and attacking mindset.

Aside from a 2-3 month period last season, where we had no choice but to throw caution to the wind, we've pretty much always played the same way under Rafa - cautious, methodical, pedestrian, slow-paced and predictable.

Tell me with some substance, that this is an incorrect suggestion.

As for 5 years under Benitez, in terms of our development as a force in the Premier League, it's been 80% failure.

[Guest]

I agree about things going against us this season. I'm not suggesting it's been a 'normal' season in terms of fortune. But we dont help ourselves either, and our playing mentality isnt one that can override poor fortune. We make it harder for ourselves on top of any bad luck.

Disagree about Alonso. Why couldnt we have prevented it? I could argue that it was Rafa's poor judgement that caused the problem in the first place, when he decided to court Barry so publicly. Plenty of us could see what a super player Alonso was, and that whilst his form wasnt good, the class and quality was always there. Instead of publicly telling the world how he planned to replace him (as Rafa was indirectly doing), he might've tried to use some man-management skills to restore Alonso's form.

All that aside, Alonso had a contract and i dont see why we couldnt have kept him for another year, at least. Why could Ferguson do it with Ronaldo but not Rafa with Alonso?

If the manager didnt have the money for an adequate replacement (i can suggest twenty million reasons why this might be debatable), perhaps a striker could've been bought, and we could've reverted to a 442, with SG in CM and a new striker up front.

I very much doubt that Alberto Aquilani is the only player in the world who could've been purchased with a low down payment, and the rest in installments and add-ons.

Regarding last season - again, it was one exception, going well against the grain of the rest of his tenure.

If something works one time out of five or out of six, then i'm not personally convinced by this, that it's a fantastic piece of methodology.

OMG, you are using that some old tripe again.

'Going against the grain'? Why not say that Rafa has made us play above our level?

[Guest]

I'm not talking about players in positions, i'm talking about his basic footballing principles, involving tempo, movement and attacking mindset.

Aside from a 2-3 month period last season, where we had no choice but to throw caution to the wind, we've pretty much always played the same way under Rafa - cautious, methodical, pedestrian, slow-paced and predictable.

Tell me with some substance, that this is an incorrect suggestion.

As for 5 years under Benitez, in terms of our development as a force in the Premier League, it's been 80% failure.

Wrong all the way and blinded by frustrations which gets hold of your common sense.

[Craig_H]

Whereas you appear to have a total hatred for Benitez and seem not able to look at his record or managerial performance objectively

Frankly I dont care whether Benitez stays or goes but anyone thinking that he goes magically transforms our players into highly motivated, attacking machines is completely clueless

The rot at our club goes far deeper than just Benitez

If you genuinely believe i have a 'total hatred' for Benitez, then we have nothing to discuss.

You come across as one of the brightest posters on here, yet you seem keen to attempt to explain my viewpoints in a somewhat childish manner, as 'hatred'.

You're obviously not a child though and dont see things as one-dimensionally as that, so i'm sure you know that my opinion is simply down to how i see things from a footballing perspective.

I'm extremely fond of Benitez as a person (as far as i 'know' him) but primarily, my concern is 100% geared towards the success of LFC. If i hated Benitez, i wouldnt want him to be successful, nor would i want to believe that he couldnt make a successful fist of this job. As it happens, i do very much want him to prove the doubters wrong and i want to believe that he could have us challenging for the title on a regular basis. Unfortunately though, based on the sum of all parts of his tenure, i dont believe that.

I dont CHOOSE whether to believe it or not, however.

[Craig_H]

OMG, you are using that some old tripe again.

'Going against the grain'? Why not say that Rafa has made us play above our level?

Good shout on just dismissing someone's viewpoint as 'tripe'. I think 90% of what you post is tripe, but there we go. Whatchya gonna do?

He did make us play above our level for one season, in the league.

That proved we were capable of a title challenge, yet we're now a million miles away.

How close to our level, do you think he's got us playing now? And if someone cant get a team playing to its capabilities, what's the basis for continuing to keep him and watching the team and club get worse?

Wrong all the way and blinded by frustrations which gets hold of your common sense.

How about actually pointing out why it's wrong, and showing me what is actually true?

To quote Mattshark, your opinion is not fact.

[Lecter]

I agree about things going against us this season. I'm not suggesting it's been a 'normal' season in terms of fortune. But we dont help ourselves either, and our playing mentality isnt one that can override poor fortune. We make it harder for ourselves on top of any bad luck.

Disagree about Alonso. Why couldnt we have prevented it? I could argue that it was Rafa's poor judgement that caused the problem in the first place, when he decided to court Barry so publicly. Plenty of us could see what a super player Alonso was, and that whilst his form wasnt good, the class and quality was always there. Instead of publicly telling the world how he planned to replace him (as Rafa was indirectly doing), he might've tried to use some man-management skills to restore Alonso's form.

All that aside, Alonso had a contract and i dont see why we couldnt have kept him for another year, at least. Why could Ferguson do it with Ronaldo but not Rafa with Alonso?

If the manager didnt have the money for an adequate replacement (i can suggest twenty million reasons why this might be debatable), perhaps a striker could've been bought, and we could've reverted to a 442, with SG in CM and a new striker up front.

I very much doubt that Alberto Aquilani is the only player in the world who could've been purchased with a low down payment, and the rest in installments and add-ons.

Regarding last season - again, it was one exception, going well against the grain of the rest of his tenure.

If something works one time out of five or out of six, then i'm not personally convinced by this, that it's a fantastic piece of methodology.

Alonso had a contract yes but money is everything to our club at this moment

Everything has to maximised, there is a huge blackhole in our budgets and clearly money that should be used for transfers is being diverted elsewhere

I'd also suggest that the moment a player hands in a transfer request I'd unload him as quickly as possible. His heart wont be in the club

Therefore you cannot afford to lose further money on him. As for the Barry debacle well thats a fair point but anyone who thinks Alonso wouldnt have gone if Barry hadnt been courted needs to wake up and smell the coffee, or alternatively look at Arbeloa and how quickly he jumped ship

As for reverting to 4-4-2 with Gerrard as CM I present to you the evidence from the first 50 minutes of last night where Gerrard was completely and utterly out of his depth. He didnt tackle he let players wander past him and he didnt track back. Before you start to claim this as a one off (similar to your 1 in 6 analogy) I suggest you look at Gerrard in the past hes always had the problem of not being disciplined enough in central midfield. He switches off which is why hes far better in his positon playing off the striker

Less tactical responsibility and free to hurt the opposition accordingly

So again to quote you a fantastic piece of methodology

[Craig_H]

So Rafa didnt win the Champions League, nor the FA Cup, nor get to the final of another Champions League or finish second last season

I love this re-writing of history its of Sky Sports proportions

Where did i actually say that?

What is it that makes the fact that i'm talking about the league, so difficult to spot?