The New Manager Thread

[Kenneth]

I disagree, there are no negative instructions

IF there was we wouldnt have achieved the position we did last season end of

End of what?

[Lecter]

So basically, what you're saying, is that our squad is only capable of 7th place, regardless of who is manager? Or not?

Forget the title, is 7th place reflective of Rafa getting the best out of the squad he has?

IMO I think we will underachieve this season

However I have been surprised at how quickly Spuds, Villa and City have improved

I didnt expect them to come on as quickly as they have frankly

Personally I expected us to just nick 4th this season (then struggle unless we see investment in the playing staff)

[Guest]

So if there's a new manager, you WANT him to fail (and therefore LFC to fail) just so you could say "See, i told you so, Rafa wasnt at fault" ?

Is that right?

If that's true, you're no more a Liverpool fan than Alex Ferguson.

It's an analogy, an abstract one which you fail to understand.

So basically, what you're saying, is that our squad is only capable of 7th place, regardless of who is manager? Or not?

Forget the title, is 7th place reflective of Rafa getting the best out of the squad he has?

No other manager will make this team win the league and under the same circumstances, will achieve 4th place with it.

[badpiggy]

does anyone else think that replacing alonso with barry would have been replacing a great player for a functional uninspired "typical" benitez midfielder?

and that by extension if this had happened we probably wouldn't have finished second/challenged for first last season?

impossible question i know - and i know the arguments about barry's versatility which always came across to me as being alright in a few positions rather than really good in one... but granted i rarely get to see him play although our dispensed with stephen warnock seems to have held down the left back position that barry could supposedly have covered for us, a supposedly better team...

another example of a lucky benitez being saved by individual players when his actual preferred method is to dispense with this type of player...?

[Guest]

does anyone else think that replacing alonso with barry would have been replacing a great player for a functional uninspired "typical" benitez midfielder?

and that by extension if this had happened we probably wouldn't have finished second/challenged for first last season?

impossible question i know - and i know the arguments about barry's versatility which always came across to me as being alright in a few positions rather than really good in one... but granted i rarely get to see him play although our dispensed with stephen warnock seems to have held down the left back position that barry could supposedly have covered for us, a supposedly better team...

another example of a lucky benitez being saved by individual players when his actual preferred method being dispensing with this type of player...?

Maybe Alonso hinted at going well before the rumours were out that he was going there. It's been no secret that Real were after him and this can be traced back to the time when he signed for us. I think Barry is an excellent player, not one who was going to score plenty of goals from midfield for us but one very much in the Alonso mould.

Alonso's main ability was to carry out Rafa's instructions onto the pitch. Now there's maybe something missing that Rafa hasn't been able to rectify yet, but in time I think he'll get this right.

[red g]

does anyone else think that replacing alonso with barry would have been replacing a great player for a functional uninspired "typical" benitez midfielder?

and that by extension if this had happened we probably wouldn't have finished second/challenged for first last season?

impossible question i know - and i know the arguments about barry's versatility which always came across to me as being alright in a few positions rather than really good in one... but granted i rarely get to see him play although our dispensed with stephen warnock seems to have held down the left back position that barry could supposedly have covered for us, a supposedly better team...

another example of a lucky benitez being saved by individual players when his actual preferred method is to dispense with this type of player...?

i actually think that is a very very good point. although it may have worked better functionally and we could have come first, Cant specualte on latter but agree on former

[cream]

So basically, what you're saying, is that our squad is only capable of 7th place, regardless of who is manager? Or not?

Forget the title, is 7th place reflective of Rafa getting the best out of the squad he has?

Nope, the squad is better than 7th place, maybe 4th place, just about. If we didn't have Torres and Gerrard, 7th would be just about achievable.

[Craig_H]

You see I see little difference between Rafas approach and that of Paisleys/Shanklys

Paisleys sides stopped the opposition built up slowly, but had the ability and quality to kill teams off

Shankly was actually quoted as saying defenders should cross the halfway line because they were "defenders"

The only team we had that attacked with pace and continued flair was the Dalglish side

You seriously believe Rafa instructs his players to pass sideways??

To me watching the players this season I have one major problem with all of them. NOBODY has been willing to take responsibility

What I mean is that when its needed someone to take charge and maybe make a killer ball they have taken the easy way out and played the ball sideways or backwards. Yet last season the same players were actively looking for forward balls

IMO a lot of our problems lie in a lack of confidence / belief in themselves rather than the manager.

Its funny because when Gerrard doesnt play the collective responsibility increases dramatically but the when Gerrard plays and plays badly the more others retreat into their shells

I'm not saying he tells them to pass sideways, but the cautious mindset he's put into them seems to make them scared to try a less 'safe' forward ball.

Isnt it down to the manager to instil confidence and belief?

I disagree, there are no negative instructions

IF there was we wouldnt have achieved the position we did last season end of

I once threw a 180, doesnt make me World Dart's Champion though.

And if you think a side cant win the title or go close, with a defensive mentality, i point you to George Graham.

[badpiggy]

Maybe Alonso hinted at going well before the rumours were out that he was going there. It's been no secret that Real were after him and this can be traced back to the time when he signed for us. I think Barry is an excellent player, not one who was going to score plenty of goals from midfield for us but one very much in the Alonso mould.

Alonso's main ability was to carry out Rafa's instructions onto the pitch. Now there's maybe something missing that Rafa hasn't been able to rectify yet, but in time I think he'll get this right.

really? like brilliant? skillfull? excellent passing range? controls games? makes space? beats players? sets up goals? scores?
or just slightly superior to lucas? more than willing to admit ignorance here but he always seems like a functional keep it tight player to me. we have enough of that thanks.

[Craig_H]

It's an analogy, an abstract one which you fail to understand.



No other manager will make this team win the league and under the same circumstances, will achieve 4th place with it.

Right, so from having been runners up last year, we're now not capable of finishing 4th?

So between May 2009 and August 2009, Rafa must've ****ed up royally, to turn a squad of runners up into one that cant finish 4th.

[Craig_H]

Nope, the squad is better than 7th place, maybe 4th place, just about. If we didn't have Torres and Gerrard, 7th would be just about achievable.

So if we dont achieve 4th place, with a squad that's capable of 4th place, who's fault is it?

[badpiggy]

Maybe Alonso hinted at going well before the rumours were out that he was going there. It's been no secret that Real were after him and this can be traced back to the time when he signed for us. I think Barry is an excellent player, not one who was going to score plenty of goals from midfield for us but one very much in the Alonso mould.

Alonso's main ability was to carry out Rafa's instructions onto the pitch. Now there's maybe something missing that Rafa hasn't been able to rectify yet, but in time I think he'll get this right.

see this is where i think people have bought into a benitez approcah that they don't actually really believe in or would ever claim as a reason for being a football fan i.e. whereas alonso was not a cryuff, maradone, pele, best, dalglish etc he was one of the best players we've had, well, ever really. and to say that his primary quality was doing what the manager told him seems to me to go too far into being a rafa apologist.

to be honest pete i'm just surmising like **** about all things LFC today as i really feel we're at a crossroads and i can't quite figure out how we got here aside from a gut-suspicion about benitez approach and tactics that has never gone away.

[cream]

So if we dont achieve 4th place, with a squad that's capable of 4th place, who's fault is it?

Rafa and the players.

The point is, this squad will never win the league and it is barely good enough to finish fourth.

[Craig_H]

So it's gone from 2nd to barely good enough for 4th, in a season.

And it's not the manager's fault?

[red g]

Rafa and the players.

The point is, this squad will never win the league and it is barely good enough to finish fourth.

personally think thats rubbish mate.

the squad is easily good enough to finish fourth and win the premiership if we managed to keep gerrard and torre fit.