The New Manager Thread

[Lecter]

Not 9 times in one season though.

You've mentioned before how you dont think rafa's blameless, but every single post of yours focuses on defending his every move, and not once have i seen you actually post anything critical about him, other than 'he is not blameless', which isnt far off saying 'he isnt perfect'.

So bearing that in mind, there's a lack of balance.

I wish you would read my posts

I could have sworn I criticised Rafa for purchasing Johnson on a previous page

I'd also add that at times his team selections and substitutions arent that great

People on here (yourself included) will probably slag me off but I think his biggest fundamental mistake this season and last was trying to be too adventurous

By that I mean he has a system that is effective and gets results but to reach that next level he obviously needs something else

Last season he bought Keane and tried to play 4-4-2 and this didnt work this goes back to Gerrard playing in central midfield (where I think he is far less effective)

Secondly this season hes tried to bring in 2 attacking fullbacks which have left us exposed badly. Insua isnt up to it fullstop and Johnson is not that great defensively

Personally I'd have spent the Johnson money, which wasnt £17 million as we wrote off Crouch money which looking at Pompeys situation is unlikely we would have received, on a wide player who exactly I dont know but I'd have looked to strengthen that position

[Lecter]

I agree with all this actually, piling men into the box, putting opponents under massive pressure, forcing the inevitable error - that's spot on, that's what you should be doing when you need a goal.

Why have we only done it during one period (10-12 weeks or so) of Rafa's tenure? That's what the mancs do, more or less whenever they're in need of a goal. And look how their fortunes have been.

It's fairly simple, as i'm sure you know mate. You press opponents, give them no time to settle, and mistakes are then forced, which you capitalise on.

We dont do this though. At least, not as 'the norm' anyway.

We actually did this quite a lot in Rafa's first season as well

Since then we have had brief flurries when we have done this but again not often enough

One thing though look at interviews from Benitez and how he describes how his teams should play (according to his plan). He talks about being compact, pressing the opposition and maintaining a high tempo

So something is going wrong from training ground to execution on the pitch

Certainly if you look at Wigan the lack of general application from our players was appalling

[Neil Young]

Mmm, brief flurries.

[Craig_H]

This is what football forums are for pal. Discussing all things football. And anyway this is the Future Planning Committee

In business you get 2 types of people, those who are happy with what they've got and don't like change and those others who don't accept continued failure and know when its time for a change

That's true, but what is interesting is that i'm someone who doesnt like change, but i'm fully advocating a change in manager.

Whether that says how badly things have got, or something else, i dont know.

[red g]

I wish you would read my posts

I could have sworn I criticised Rafa for purchasing Johnson on a previous page

I'd also add that at times his team selections and substitutions arent that great

People on here (yourself included) will probably slag me off but I think his biggest fundamental mistake this season and last was trying to be too adventurous
By that I mean he has a system that is effective and gets results but to reach that next level he obviously needs something else

Last season he bought Keane and tried to play 4-4-2 and this didnt work this goes back to Gerrard playing in central midfield (where I think he is far less effective)

Secondly this season hes tried to bring in 2 attacking fullbacks which have left us exposed badly. Insua isnt up to it fullstop and Johnson is not that great defensively

Personally I'd have spent the Johnson money, which wasnt £17 million as we wrote off Crouch money which looking at Pompeys situation is unlikely we would have received, on a wide player who exactly I dont know but I'd have looked to strengthen that position

but then we needed to ......we needed to take that next step and maybe he looked at last season andf thought we were lucky in a few to many games and needed to do somehting different.

The Johnson buy was mindboggling unless he had further cash taken away from him, Which i bbelieve he did.

Only a madmen blows his entire budget on A RB when we desperately need a striker

[Neil Young]

This is what football forums are for pal. Discussing all things football. And anyway this is the Future Planning Committee

In business you get 2 types of people, those who are happy with what they've got and don't like change and those others who don't accept continued failure and know when its time for a change

Hmm. In my experience, in business you get two types of people: those who vastly oversimplify by separating people into just two types, usually in order to support their own preconceptions, and, um, those who don't.

[red g]

Mmm, brief flurries.

mmmm mcflurries

[Lecter]

but then we needed to ......we needed to take that next step and maybe he looked at last season andf thought we were lucky in a few to many games and needed to do somehting different.

The Johnson buy was mindboggling unless he had further cash taken away from him, Which i bbelieve he did.

Only a madmen blows his entire budget on A RB when we desperately need a striker

You see I dont think we needed to be more adventurous (in system terms)

We just needed wide players who threatened more

The Johnson buy was strange but as I have mentioned I do wonder how much of that was influenced by Portsmouth's inability to pay the remainder of the Crouch fee

Look at it this way - you have £9 million to spend, and you are owed £8 million by Portsmouth.

Portsmouth tell you they are not paying/cant afford to pay the £8 million (the player has already been sold on though)

However they say if we are willing to right off the monies owed from Crouch we can have Johnson at £9 million

This isnt that attractive to us BUT Portsmouth insist you either do this or get nothing from the Crouch deal (as they hint they are in serious financial difficulties)

We as a club look on the deal as a whole as Johnson being overvalued BUT chances are if we were to sell Johnson we would get more than £9 milliion for him (therefore recouping some of the loss on the Crouch non-payment) so from that point of view its isnt that bad a deal

In football terms the finances are irrelevant because I do not think hes added enough for the money we have outlayed

[The Birdman]

I wish you would read my posts

I could have sworn I criticised Rafa for purchasing Johnson on a previous page

I'd also add that at times his team selections and substitutions arent that great

People on here (yourself included) will probably slag me off but I think his biggest fundamental mistake this season and last was trying to be too adventurous
By that I mean he has a system that is effective and gets results but to reach that next level he obviously needs something else

Last season he bought Keane and tried to play 4-4-2 and this didnt work this goes back to Gerrard playing in central midfield (where I think he is far less effective)

Secondly this season hes tried to bring in 2 attacking fullbacks which have left us exposed badly. Insua isnt up to it fullstop and Johnson is not that great defensively

Personally I'd have spent the Johnson money, which wasnt £17 million as we wrote off Crouch money which looking at Pompeys situation is unlikely we would have received, on a wide player who exactly I dont know but I'd have looked to strengthen that position

I completely agree with the bit you posted that I have highlighted, football isn't as easy as we finished 2nd we'll win it next year.
The change in system to incorporate more attacking full backs may have been a lot smoother had we not suffered horredus injuries and I have posted this many times before on here it is (imo) a combination of the new players, new system, injures and lack of transfer funding that have caused our season to implode.
My personal opinion is that Johnson is a good buy and is a massive improvement on Arbeloa, Capello picks him and between them Rafa and Capello aren't mugs, he has just had a disjoined season because of injuries but he was a revelation in the early games.
I also think Insua will be good enough, yes he is inconsistant at the moment but he is 21 in his first full season as a regular. It's not his fault Aurellio can't stay fit long emough to give him a break.

I don't think we can play Carra CB if we persist with the system of attacking full backs but that is another arguement

[Neil Young]

I'm not sure the Johnson buy was all that strange at all.

Perhaps the figure was a little inflated but when you look at how much money Chelsea have paid out on full backs and add in the fact that English players tend to cost more than players from elsewhere then £18m isn't all that outlandish.

There's the argument he's not a good enough defender to command that fee but, given how it seems to be fashionable to use full backs as attacking players (with defensive midfielders dropping back to help plug holes), I think it's very likely Johnson's undoubted strengths as an offensive threat were seen as the main justification for the fee. It also seems likely Rafa felt, and probably still feels, he could seriously improve Johnson's defending - he may turn to have been wrong about that but at this stage it's far too early to tell either way, even if Johnson's season hadn't been disrupted by a couple of injuries.

[The Birdman]

You see I dont think we needed to be more adventurous (in system terms)

We just needed wide players who threatened more

The Johnson buy was strange but as I have mentioned I do wonder how much of that was influenced by Portsmouth's inability to pay the remainder of the Crouch fee

Look at it this way - you have £9 million to spend, and you are owed £8 million by Portsmouth.

Portsmouth tell you they are not paying/cant afford to pay the £8 million (the player has already been sold on though)

However they say if we are willing to right off the monies owed from Crouch we can have Johnson at £9 million

This isnt that attractive to us BUT Portsmouth insist you either do this or get nothing from the Crouch deal (as they hint they are in serious financial difficulties)

We as a club look on the deal as a whole as Johnson being overvalued BUT chances are if we were to sell Johnson we would get more than £9 milliion for him (therefore recouping some of the loss on the Crouch non-payment) so from that point of view its isnt that bad a deal

In football terms the finances are irrelevant because I do not think hes added enough for the money we have outlayed

I think we went for attacking full backs for 2 reasons -
1. We can't afford the type of wide midfielder/winger that would transform our attacking play.
2. Who currently play with 2 out and out wingers?? all the top clubs play various systems but the width is provided by the full backs (Alves, Albiol, Ramos, Bosingwa, Evra, Rafael/Fabio, Sagna, Clichy, A.Cole)

Rightly or wrongly it appears to be the modern thinking

[The Birdman]

I'm not sure the Johnson buy was all that strange at all.

Perhaps the figure was a little inflated but when you look at how much money Chelsea have paid out on full backs and add in the fact that English players tend to cost more than players from elsewhere then £18m isn't all that outlandish.

There's the argument he's not a good enough defender to command that fee but, given how it seems to be fashionable to use full backs as attacking players (with defensive midfielders dropping back to help plug holes), I think it's very likely Johnson's undoubted strengths as an offensive threat were seen as the main justification for the fee. It also seems likely Rafa felt, and probably still feels, he could seriously improve Johnson's defending - he may turn to have been wrong about that but at this stage it's far too early to tell either way, even if Johnson's season hadn't been disrupted by a couple of injuries.

Cole about 6m (with Gallas thrown in), Johnson 8m, Bosingwa 18m, Ferreria 18m, Ivanovich 12m (I think) Zhirakov 18m

Plus others I can't recall off the top of my head

[red g]

also Johnsons defensive lapses could be covered by the 'hardowrking' kuyt. sure that was in Rafas thinking as well

[Shaggy]

Cole about 6m (with Gallas thrown in), Johnson 8m, Bosingwa 18m, Ferreria 18m, Ivanovich 12m (I think) Zhirakov 18m

Plus others I can't recall off the top of my head

Ivanovic was £9m and Ferreira £13m but you're absolutely right. No-one bats an eyelid when they fork out fortunes on (average) full-backs. They were prepared to pay the same as we did for Johnson, as were City. It's the going rate. He's the best right-back in England, what do people expect FFS.

[red g]

Ivanovic was £9m and Ferreira £13m but you're absolutely right. No-one bats an eyelid when they fork out fortunes on (average) full-backs. They were prepared to pay the same as we did for Johnson, as were City. It's the going rate. He's the best right-back in England, what do people expect FFS.

I suppose the only difference is they have money to burn we dont so RAfa's spends are more scrutinised