The New Manager Thread

[red g]

That's the focal point of your argument judging by the last 4 pages of this thread and you did come on with a quip referring to that a couple of posts above. Don't try to sound dumber than you are Craig, cause you probably are.

much under used word

[Guest]

that sums us up pretty well this season

Confidence. Injuries. Loss of an important player. Lack of money to re-invest. Key players slow to regain form. Etc. etc ... So yeah, it's stupid to list those facts but not stupid to pinpoint that Kuyt and Lucas should have been axed.

[Craig_H]

That's the focal point of your argument judging by the last 4 pages of this thread and you did come on with a quip referring to that a couple of posts above. Don't try to sound dumber than you are Craig, cause you probably are.

That last line makes no sense

I've never said anything about it being the be all and end all.

It's rafa's biggest weakness as a manager, so i focus on it because it's the area most in need of improvement and i want us to improve, so Liverpool Football Club can succeed.

Your main focus is the fortunes of Rafael Benitez, so much so, that you've said that you'd want any successor to fail, in order to prove how good rafa was. So you want LFC to fail after he moves on, in order to make Rafa look better.

[Craig_H]

Confidence. Injuries. Loss of an important player. Lack of money to re-invest. Key players slow to regain form. Etc. etc ... So yeah, it's stupid to list those facts but not stupid to pinpoint that Kuyt and Lucas should have been axed.

So it's just been confidence, injuries, loss of important player, lack of money, slow to regain form etc. There's not been any poor team selections, poor substitutions/lack of subs when needed, poorly utilised systems and a lack of motivational skills?

Basically, you list what's gone wrong and surprise surprise, no blame is attributed to the manager.

What were the next two things on your list? Length of the grass? Brightness of the floodlights?

[red g]

Confidence. Injuries. Loss of an important player. Lack of money to re-invest. Key players slow to regain form. Etc. etc ... So yeah, it's stupid to list those facts but not stupid to pinpoint that Kuyt and Lucas should have been axed.

i never said it was stupid to list those facts.......but all those facts were out of Rafa's control.....playing masher/lucas and resting kuyt, well he could have done something about that, couldnt he?


As i have said previously its been a **** season for a million and one reasons this year.......but RAfa gets a 3/10 for this season in my eyes he has done a poor job tactically and motivationally.

[Guest]

That's last line makes no sense

I've never said anything about it being the be all and end all.

It's rafa's biggest weakness as a manager, so i focus on it because it's the area most in need of improvement and i want us to improve, so Liverpool Football Club can succeed.

Your main focus is the fortunes of Rafael Benitez, so much so, that you've said that you'd want any successor to fail, in order to prove how good rafa was. So you want LFC to fail after he moves on, in order to make Rafa look better.

Biggest weakness which, according to you, is preventing us from going forward, and you've taken 6 years to come with that.

No my main focus isn't on Benitez but I'll happily make you believe that I think it is.

I just don't see the point in sacking him when he has a long term plan in place and where a new manager will probably **** everything up and restart again, especially his best buddy Jose Moanhino.

[MrMichael]

Ok, Fredo, question for you. What would it take for you to think it actually was time for Rafa to go?

Genuinely interested.

[Craig_H]

Biggest weakness which, according to you, is preventing us from going forward, and you've taken 6 years to come with that.

More gibberish that makes no sense.

No my main focus isn't on Benitez but I'll happily make you believe that I think it is.

Oh right, so you were just 'joking' when you said that?

Everytime you say something daft, you were just 'joking'. Course mate.

I just don't see the point in sacking him when he has a long term plan in place and where a new manager will probably **** everything up and restart again, especially his best buddy Jose Moanhino.

His long term place has got us on the brink of losing our place in the CL on a long term basis. Mourinho hasnt really got a record of '****ing things up'. Unless you call winning things virtually every season as '****ing up'.

[Craig_H]

Ok, Fredo, question for you. What would it take for you to think it actually was time for Rafa to go?

Genuinely interested.

I'm only saying this because it's genuine true - but i've sincerely wondered that same thing for ages, and i even asked fredo once - i think (IIRC) he said 'nothing' and that he'd never want rafa to go, regardless of what happened.

[badpiggy]

Does it show that I base my whole argument on that?

If I had to list all the arguments I've put forward in favour of Rafa all over the years I'd never finish. I've never said he was flawless though, I just don't see the point of being boringly regressive about it.

I prefer to emphasise the positives and Rafa has got many; and before the usual suspect comes along with his 4th place / 7th place argument, I don't like to rest on such simplistic statements.

let the record show i said "nearly". m'lud.

while there are lots of mitigating circumstances to explain our disappointing form this season and for large chunks of the previous 4 seasons, surely you have to consider that the faults that rafa showed in his 1st - 4th seasons here are still the same faults on the pitch that have us struggling for 4th. these are not new problems.

[Guest]

So it's just been confidence, injuries, loss of important player, lack of money, slow to regain form etc. There's not been any poor team selections, poor substitutions/lack of subs when needed, poorly utilised systems and a lack of motivational skills?

Basically, you list what's gone wrong and surprise surprise, no blame is attributed to the manager.

What were the next two things on your list? Length of the grass? Brightness of the floodlights?

Because the poor team selections and substitutions haven't been frequent enough to put us into that quagmire, IMO. There has been far more damaging factors that the ones you're mentioning. He's stubborn and methodical in the way he uses his substitutes, rightly or wrongly so but there have been a lot of cases when his substitutions have been master-strokes in the past, which you overlook to suit your argument.

i never said it was stupid to list those facts.......but all those facts were out of Rafa's control.....playing masher/lucas and resting kuyt, well he could have done something about that, couldnt he?

Lack of money is something he can't control. It's been documented that his budget was changed as a result of RBS exercising stricter controls on the way the club spent money. Still, he sold Alonso for £30m+, which is fantastic business for the club especially when Real wanted to pay around £20m initially.

As for resting Kuyt etc, come on mate you are just being silly there, Kuyt has been an important figure scoring some important goals when we were trying to come out of our slump and seriously, you'd have put Babel in his place eh?

[MrMichael]

I'm only saying this because it's genuine true - but i've sincerely wondered that same thing for ages, and i even asked fredo once - i think (IIRC) he said 'nothing' and that he'd never want rafa to go, regardless of what happened.

Hang on you, lets not put words in his mouth, I'm really interested. Because I admire his viewpoint, even if I am inclined to think he takes it more out of stubbornness than anything else. Which is why I'd like to understand more. And please no answers like "I'll support him as long as he's manager", because that isn't the question.

[Guest]

Ok, Fredo, question for you. What would it take for you to think it actually was time for Rafa to go?

Genuinely interested.

I'd give him another year but it will have to be under better financial conditions. I'm pretty sure he'll go if he can't see things changing from that point but that may not be the case as he's utterly stubborn and proud.

No manager is going to perform miracles under the same financial constraints, not even god, sorry Moanhihno.

let the record show i said "nearly". m'lud.

while there are lots of mitigating circumstances to explain our disappointing form this season and for large chunks of the previous 4 seasons, surely you have to consider that the faults that rafa showed in his 1st - 4th seasons here are still the same faults on the pitch that have us struggling for 4th. these are not new problems.

His first two years were building years so you can remove that from the equation. 3rd, 4th and 5th we've been steadily improving in the league but still lacked the extra resources (compared to clubs who invested a lot more than us) which would have made us champions, especially last year. Football is not a science so it's best to analyse things with a bit of perspective and try to plot a bigger picture. But we're too impatient as fans.

[red g]

Because the poor team selections and substitutions haven't been frequent enough to put us into that quagmire, IMO. There has been far more damaging factors that the ones you're mentioning. He's stubborn and methodical in the way he uses his substitutes, rightly or wrongly so but there have been a lot of cases when his substitutions have been master-strokes in the past, which you overlook to suit your argument.



Lack of money is something he can't control. It's been documented that his budget was changed as a result of RBS exercising stricter controls on the way the club spent money. Still, he sold Alonso for £30m+, which is fantastic business for the club especially when Real wanted to pay around £20m initially.

As for resting Kuyt etc, come on mate you are just being silly there, Kuyt has been an important figure scoring some important goals when we were trying to come out of our slump and seriously, you'd have put Babel in his place eh?

RAfa does get top value for players....definitely.

But think you are quite wrong there, our slump has been all season Kuyt had a great January and been piss poor for the rest of it!! He certainly should have been dropped sooner that wednesday

[Guest]

I'm only saying this because it's genuine true - but i've sincerely wondered that same thing for ages, and i even asked fredo once - i think (IIRC) he said 'nothing' and that he'd never want rafa to go, regardless of what happened.

I seriously made that point to piss you off because you were getting on my nerves.