The New Manager Thread

[Scratch]

I've said matchgoing fans. I cant legislate for the rest of them. Of those at games, it's about half and half.

Half and half eh? Care to provide evidence of this statement? A poll that was taken at the match, or perhaps you've individually spoken to every fan there and gauged their opinion? Or maybe everyone just gets sick of having to argue with you and just agrees to shut you up?

[Scratch]

Rafa hasnt reached the same level of heights as a Liverpool mananger, that Gerrard has as a player, at the same levels of consistency.

As for constraints - Gerrard's had plenty too. He's had to perform surrounded by average/****e players for much of his time, yet still reached a world class level of performance on year-in, year-out basis.

Comparing what rafa's done in the context of LFC manager, to what Gerrard's done in the context of LFC player, is an insult to the skipper.

I dunno, in the time that Rafa has been here, he's won just as much as Gerrard i'd have thought? Before that time, he's won more that Gerrard.

So really, what Gerrard has done as a LFC player, since Rafa's reign began, is a direct result of what Rafa has done as manager, so to say that one has exceeded the other is just an insult to both player and skipper.

[Guest]

Rafa hasnt reached the same level of heights as a Liverpool mananger, that Gerrard has as a player, at the same levels of consistency.

As for constraints - Gerrard's had plenty too. He's had to perform surrounded by average/****e players for much of his time, yet still reached a world class level of performance on year-in, year-out basis.

Comparing what rafa's done in the context of LFC manager, to what Gerrard's done in the context of LFC player, is an insult to the skipper.

But you've said that we should at least been competing for the league, how can we do that with ****e players bar Gerrard?

[Craig_H]

Half and half eh? Care to provide evidence of this statement? A poll that was taken at the match, or perhaps you've individually spoken to every fan there and gauged their opinion? Or maybe everyone just gets sick of having to argue with you and just agrees to shut you up?

It's based on attending the matches and is obviously not a cast-iron, exact account based at exactly 50%.

[Craig_H]

But you've said that we should at least been competing for the league, how can we do that with ****e players bar Gerrard?

****e compared to him.

In his time at LFC, how many world class players do you think he's played alongside?

And i think you'll find that i've said we should be finishing 4th without a struggle.

[Craig_H]

I dunno, in the time that Rafa has been here, he's won just as much as Gerrard i'd have thought? Before that time, he's won more that Gerrard.

So really, what Gerrard has done as a LFC player, since Rafa's reign began, is a direct result of what Rafa has done as manager, so to say that one has exceeded the other is just an insult to both player and skipper.

I disagree.

[Guest]

****e compared to him.

In his time at LFC, how many world class players do you think he's played alongside?

And i think you'll find that i've said we should be finishing 4th without a struggle.

Apart from Torres, Mascherano, Alonso, Reina, Carragher in his prime, Hyppia and possibly Agger there hasn't been much.

[Craig_H]

Well there you go then.

[Guest]

Well there you go then.

That's 8 players in a team of 11 mate, so can't be that bad. But we haven't had all of them as world class at the same time, if you know what I mean.

Still, Rafa's hands were tied as we never had the money to outright go and buy those kind of players, as opposed to United, Chelsea and City splashing money on players.

[Scratch]

It's based on attending the matches and is obviously not a cast-iron, exact account based at exactly 50%.

It's based soley on your opinion, and is in no way reflective of the collective. People may be disgruntled with the football that has been played, i can't defend that we have been poor, but that doesn't mean they want the manager gone, just that they are not happy with the way the team has plays. Like i said, a lot of fans are knowledgable and realise that this season has been majorly disrupted by injury and matters that are out of the managers control. Some of the less knowledgable fans may have decided that one poor season means the end of Rafa, but they don't speak for the majority.

I disagree.

You would, cos it's all you know how to do.

[Craig_H]

You would, cos it's all you know how to do.

Oh sorry, am i not allowed to disagree with you, oh mighty one?

Isnt it what you're doing with me too? So is it all YOU know how to do as well? Grow up.

[Craig_H]

That's 8 players in a team of 11 mate, so can't be that bad. But we haven't had all of them as world class at the same time, if you know what I mean.

Still, Rafa's hands were tied as we never had the money to outright go and buy those kind of players, as opposed to United, Chelsea and City splashing money on players.

I meant over the course of Gerrard's career, not just in the last couple of seasons.

And why are you switching to a debate about money? The point was about Gerrard carrying various Liverpool teams, filled largely with average players, nowhere near as good as him. It's not about the rights or wrongs of that.

[MrMichael]

Now now, lets not let this get petulant..... or I'll just "tidy it up" again

Istanbul was his greatest moment that's why I pinpointed that moment instead of the others but of course, that was implied. I am not arguing against the fact he's been immense for us and I can understand his frustration when things have gone pear shaped but that shouldn't be an excuse for him sulking and berating young players who are learning their trade.

And let's not forget another thing, he has been transformed from a very good player to a world class one by Rafa despite playing 'out of position' many times. Maybe he would have turned out that good a player if Rafa wasn't there but we would never know but let's give the boss credit for that for once. And if Gerrard has been our saviour so many times, some of that can be reflected upon Rafa himself.

To conclude I will just say that I've always thought that Rafa's whole tenure at Anfield is generally positive and our club is in a far better position than 5 years ago. Despite not winning anything of note during the last 3 years, we've always been competing for the CL and at a lesser level for the league, which came to its culmination under his reign last year. This season has been awful, depressing and the football on offer was appalling but I think that there are too many mitigating circumstances for us to state with certainty that Rafa has lost it.

Now that's the sort of reasoned answer I was looking for.

Personally I'm finding it harder and harder to see a genuinely positive future for the club, with Rafa in charge or without him on almost an equally depressing footing, but when you put it like that I can understand your viewpoint a bit better.

[Scratch]

Oh sorry, am i not allowed to disagree with you, oh mighty one?

Isnt it what you're doing with me too? So is it all YOU know how to do as well? Grow up.

Disagree all you like. My comment was that you disagree with every one and any one, purely for the sake of it.

Nice use of the by the way, really accentuates your posting skills and makes you seem so mature and sensible. Really puts your "grow up" comment into good perspective.

[MrMichael]