The New Manager Thread

[Craig_H]

There's really no point in either of us trying to convince the other to change their viewpoint or stance, because it's not going to happen.

And why does having to take more off field **** than anyone else, mean the mistakes dont matter?

[Neil Young]

If we get new owners, proper owners, I think Rafa deserves one more year. He has made mistakes, no doubt about it. But he also had to take more **** from off-field issues than most LFC managers since Shankly combined.

With new owners and pots of money to spend in the transfer market then Mourinho could do a decent job. But I think Rafa could do a better job and over a longer period and we wouldn't have to put up with a repulsive egomaniac **** as our manager.

And if the board really believe Rafa is playing political games then good, I hope they're right. Someone high up in the club has to have the best interests of LFC at heart and it certainly isn't the owners.

[Craig_H]

I think Mourinho would get the current squad, as it is, finishing in the top four.

The idea that Mourinho cant work with strict budgets is made a mockery of, when his Porto tenure is examined. Those who make the assumption though, tend to ignore it.

[SERVO2]

With new owners and pots of money to spend in the transfer market then Mourinho could do a decent job. But I think Rafa could do a better job and over a longer period and we wouldn't have to put up with a repulsive egomaniac **** as our manager.

And if the board really believe Rafa is playing political games then good, I hope they're right. Someone high up in the club has to have the best interests of LFC at heart and it certainly isn't the owners.

Thank you - I think you just explained it better than I tried.

Cheers

Rach

[peekay]

There's really no point in either of us trying to convince the other to change their viewpoint or stance, because it's not going to happen.

And why does having to take more off field **** than anyone else, mean the mistakes dont matter?

It does matter. I do acknowledge that he could have done better and bought more intelligently. However IMO he deserves a chance with a board who backs him and trusts him. This is just an opinion and I don't have any perfect 100% iron clad rational explanation to back it up.

Performance on the field is a very non-linear and highly sensitive process and is affected by a number of factors. It is very difficult to ascertain and separate out and isolate the percentage of blame which can be apportioned to Rafa, the board and the players as the actions of all them are so dependent and the effects are intertwined. All of us have different perceptions of those percentages and I respect yours.

But I just happen to believe that under the current board and ownership structure and the level of finances it will be very difficult for us to attract a world class manager. It is also very difficult to determine how a manager would perform under a better board.

I am just talking from my experience. I worked under a very **** boss for a year and my performance hit rock bottom. I just couldn't handle it. When I transferred under a different Phd advisor my productivity levels increased significantly.

Trust me I have flip flopped this season number of times in wanting Rafa out and retaining him. However, after thinking about it for some time, I just believe that under a more supporting board he would perform much better than most candidates out there. I just think he deserves one more chance.

[Craig_H]

It does matter. I do acknowledge that he could have done better and bought more intelligently. However IMO he deserves a chance with a board who backs him and trusts him. This is just an opinion and I don't have any perfect 100% iron clad rational explanation to back it up.

Performance on the field is a very non-linear and highly sensitive process and is affected by a number of factors. It is very difficult to ascertain and separate out and identify the percentage of blame which can be apportioned to Rafa, the board and the players as the actions of all them are so dependent and the effects are intertwined. All of us have different perceptions of those percentages and I respect yours.

But I just happen to believe that under the current board and ownership structure and the level of finances it will be very difficult for us to attract a world class manager. It is also very difficult to determine how a manager would perform under a better board.

I am just talking from my experience. I worked under a very **** boss for a year and my performance hit rock bottom. I just couldn't handle it. When I transferred under a different Phd advisor my productivity levels increased significantly.

Trust me I have flip flopped this season number of times in wanting Rafa out and retaining him. However, after thinking about it for some time, I just believe that under a more supporting board he would perform much better than most candidates out there. I just think he deserves a chance.

Please dont go down the avenue of thinking that i'm classing your opinion as invalid, or that i'm suggesting that you're not entitled to it. Of course you are and of course it's valid. If i've implied otherwise, i apologise.

My main point is more to do with the thought process that seems to stop Rafa from making an attacking change - whereby he removes a defensive player, and replaces him with an attacking threat - when we need a goal.

Clearly with the lack of funds, rafa's attacking options are somewhat limited and players like N'Gog & Pacheco arent (at this stage of their development) the ideal option when we're struggling and need goals.

However, as attacking options and attacking players, they're more likely to score or create chances/goals than defensive reserves.

What i dont understand is how a bigger budget would change these fundamental footballing beliefs he seems to have. The two things are completely independent of each other.

A bigger budget would most likely mean we'd have a much better rightback on the bench than Degen (for example) and much better attacking options than N'Gog and Pacheco. But they wouldnt mean Rafa would change his outlook, that tells him the rightback is a better bet to score or create us a goal, than an attacking creative forward like Pacheco or a striker like N'Gog.

That's the bit i dont understand - why would his general football mentality and mindset change, with a bigger budget?

[peekay]

Please dont go down the avenue of thinking that i'm classing your opinion as invalid, or that i'm suggesting that you're not entitled to it. Of course you are and of course it's valid. If i've implied otherwise, i apologise.

Please dont apologize, as I have said I have changed my opinion multiple times during this season.

My main point is more to do with the thought process that seems to stop Rafa from making an attacking change - whereby he removes a defensive player, and replaces him with an attacking threat - when we need a goal.

Clearly with the lack of funds, rafa's attacking options are somewhat limited and players like N'Gog & Pacheco arent (at this stage of their development) the ideal option when we're struggling and need goals.

However, as attacking options and attacking players, they're more likely to score or create chances/goals than defensive reserves.

What i dont understand is how a bigger budget would change these fundamental footballing beliefs he seems to have. The two things are completely independent of each other.

A bigger budget would most likely mean we'd have a much better rightback on the bench than Degen (for example) and much better attacking options than N'Gog and Pacheco. But they wouldnt mean Rafa would change his outlook, that tells him the rightback is a better bet to score or create us a goal, than an attacking creative forward like Pacheco or a striker like N'Gog.

That's the bit i dont understand - why would his general football mentality and mindset change, with a bigger budget?

I have no perfect answer to your question. I think that it is easy to make an attacking substitution when you have higher quality attackers on the pitch and the bench. I just believe maybe if he gets his first choice attacking targets, he will be more adventurous in the field. He has made us play some effective attacking football for reasonable periods when he had his complete squad. For two-thirds of last season we played some breathtaking attacking football.

The reason I am still supporting him is due to a number of varied factors - He is a top quality manager, no doubt about it. He gets the Liverpool way. The fans know that. He had his photo taken on in a procession within seven months of arrival, in Cardiff. That was before we defeated Juve and our people really started believing we had a chance. He has shown intermittently that he can get us to play some high quality football. He has shown a commitment to learn and improve. He has also shown a commitment to improve all aspects of our club starting from the youth and upwards. He wants to build a dynasty here. He loves it here at LFC.

THis season from day one , for whatever reason and for whomsoevers faults, whatever we as a club touched turned into ****. Whatever he tried, did not come off. Every man has such a phase, however successful he is. Sometimes when a guy is obviously talented, it is better to stick with him through such a phase. Coz if Rafa comes back from such a phase, we have the perfect manager at our helm. I just think right now it is worth sticking with him.

[MrMichael]

Can we cut out the abusive comments please people, it simply doesn't help.

I think if we got new owners, proper owners, Mourinho would come. In fact, he as good as said this himself fairly recently.

Madrid could throw a spanner in the works, mind.

Too many IF's there though don't you think?

If we got new owners, if they were decent rather than another bunch of rip-off merchants, and if Madrid don't come in for him. I'd also add if he doesn't win the CL with Inter and decide to stay there rather than come to a club with no CL footy next year and if our owners, either existing or new, decided he was the man to approach. Its too much of a stretch, really it is.

We need to face facts imo. The likelyhood of Mourinho being the next Liverpool manager, assuming Benitez does go, is somewhere in the region of extremely slim to none. I reckon its more likely Fredo would lead a "Rafa out" campaign than Jose come to Anfield currently. He might have alluded to being interested in managing us at some point, but he's equally expressed interest in the ManU job.... (wiki) "I would consider going to Manchester United but United have to consider if they want me to succeed Sir Alex Ferguson. If they do, then of course.", and there is no way he'd consider going from CL winner (likely) to a side not even competing in it next year. Especially with the Madrid job on a plate.

So, if we must have this discussion while we still have a manager, can we try to keep it a bit realistic please? If we're discussing players we could buy nobody suggests Kaka or Messi, because that would be silly. Well suggesting Mourinho as manager is just as silly as things stand. Not to mention its been absolutely done to death, then way past that, making constructive or interesting debate on this topic basically impossible as soon as his name comes up.

This is the last time I will ask people to quit going on about him voluntarily, if it continues I really will just arbitrarily ban all mention of him from this forum

[Craig_H]

Can we cut out the abusive comments please people, it simply doesn't help.



Too many IF's there though don't you think?

If we got new owners, if they were decent rather than another bunch of rip-off merchants, and if Madrid don't come in for him. I'd also add if he doesn't win the CL with Inter and decide to stay there rather than come to a club with no CL footy next year and if our owners, either existing or new, decided he was the man to approach. Its too much of a stretch, really it is.

We need to face facts imo. The likelyhood of Mourinho being the next Liverpool manager, assuming Benitez does go, is somewhere in the region of extremely slim to none. I reckon its more likely Fredo would lead a "Rafa out" campaign than Jose come to Anfield currently. He might have alluded to being interested in managing us at some point, but he's equally expressed interest in the ManU job.... (wiki) "I would consider going to Manchester United but United have to consider if they want me to succeed Sir Alex Ferguson. If they do, then of course.", and there is no way he'd consider going from CL winner (likely) to a side not even competing in it next year. Especially with the Madrid job on a plate.

So, if we must have this discussion while we still have a manager, can we try to keep it a bit realistic please? If we're discussing players we could buy nobody suggests Kaka or Messi, because that would be silly. Well suggesting Mourinho as manager is just as silly as things stand. Not to mention its been absolutely done to death, then way past that, making constructive or interesting debate on this topic basically impossible as soon as his name comes up.

This is the last time I will ask people to quit going on about him voluntarily, if it continues I really will just arbitrarily ban all mention of him from this forum

Some ifs yes, but there seems to be some possibility of finally getting the ownership issue sorted. We have to hope at least, if we didnt have hope, the on field debacle would've driven us round the bend by now. I dont think he'll stay with Inter, regardless. He's had enough of Italy and if he wins the treble, which is more likely than not, i dont see what else there is for him to stay on for.

Madrid is the only genuine stumbling block IMO.

As for how 'realistic' an option he is - that's not as cut and dried as you suggest and it's a matter of opinion. Just like me saying i think he would come to us doesnt make it factually correct, neither does people saying there's practically zero chance of it, make that factually correct. We can only offer opinions and nobody's are any more or less valid than anyone else's.

[MrMichael]

Some ifs yes, but there seems to be some possibility of finally getting the ownership issue sorted. We have to hope at least, if we didnt have hope, the on field debacle would've driven us round the bend by now. I dont think he'll stay with Inter, regardless. He's had enough of Italy and if he wins the treble, which is more likely than not, i dont see what else there is for him to stay on for.

Madrid is the only genuine stumbling block IMO.

As for how 'realistic' an option he is - that's not as cut and dried as you suggest and it's a matter of opinion. Just like me saying i think he would come to us doesnt make it factually correct, neither does people saying there's practically zero chance of it, make that factually correct. We can only offer opinions and nobody's are any more or less valid than anyone else's.

So having not been driven round the bend by the on-field debacle we should be driven round it by circular discussions about a manager we won't get?

Madrid is a pretty damn big stimbing block though.... Kaka, Ronaldo and unlimited funds, or Lucas, Babel and the spare change behind the sofa?

But its by no means the only one. Our appauling off-field situation is most definitely another, as is the lack of CL football next year (and possibly for some time coming). We've been waiting and hoping for several years for something to change re. the ownership situation, there might seem like "some possibility" now but that's really not strong enough for me. Just look at the ownership threads from the news forum, this years, and last years. and the one before that....

I genuinely believe there's some seriously wishful thinking going on that is completely incongruous with the reality of our situation, and with how those who don't support our club will see it. Sure, for one of us, managing LFC would be the pinnacle of everything a manager could do or achieve in football. I'm not sure for most high-calibre managers out there it would be any more than one of several dozen high-profile jobs that would interest them if all things were equal, and given the off-field mess, complete lack of money etc, really rather unattractive right now compared to many positions. You have to admit surely that on balance of probability, Jose Mourinho will not be the next manager of LFC should Benitez depart in the next few weeks? And as that probability is really rather low, we really could be making some effort to talk about more realistic options rather than this debate constantly returning to the same point.

Perhaps its not as absolutely definite as I have been making out, but I'll give you 5-1 odds if you'd like a wager on it?

[captainfog]

No investment means no top class manager, ie no Maurine (my first choice), Hiddink etc etc etc.

No investment means we also need someone who can wheel and deal and motivate the players to get the best out of them. Top of that list would have to be Woy Hodgeson or maybe even, dare I say it, 'arry Redknapp........... Not popular choices, I know, but who else knows the premiership and has those two qualities???

[cannotmakeit]

I think if we got new owners, proper owners, Mourinho would come. In fact, he as good as said this himself fairly recently.

Madrid could throw a spanner in the works, mind.

when?

[bertie]

I think Mourinho would get the current squad, as it is, finishing in the top four.

The idea that Mourinho cant work with strict budgets is made a mockery of, when his Porto tenure is examined. Those who make the assumption though, tend to ignore it.

My sentiments exactly People oin here are losing sight of what made this club great... winning trophies and to be more specific .. League titles. The only criteria that the new owners should have in choosing a new manager is this. As for being annoying? an egomaniac? I couldn't give a toss if he brings home# 19 and finally confines Fergie to the graveyard he belongs.

Anyone on here who doesn't think that Shankly often wound up opposing team supporters is off his bin. The man was constantly taunting Everton. Told the world how Liverpool was the greatest city in the world, my players are better than anyone else's etc. Add 40 years and you get Jose. Shanks made us great cos he imbued his own self-confidence into the team. He didn't give a toss who he pissed off in the process as long as the end goal of "bread & butter" winning leagues was achieved. I think we need to get real

We've had gentlemen who wouldn't bat an eyelid in anger (Roy & GH) and a politician (Rafa) and it hasn't bloody worked. We need a bloody minded egotistical LEADER to get us back to where we belong. An outstanding tactical mind with an eye for a player (6 of the starting 11 vs Barca were signed by him last summer). That I'm afraid to say is Jose.

[Vermilion]

Can we cut out the abusive comments please people, it simply doesn't help.



Too many IF's there though don't you think?

If we got new owners, if they were decent rather than another bunch of rip-off merchants, and if Madrid don't come in for him. I'd also add if he doesn't win the CL with Inter and decide to stay there rather than come to a club with no CL footy next year and if our owners, either existing or new, decided he was the man to approach. Its too much of a stretch, really it is.

We need to face facts imo. The likelyhood of Mourinho being the next Liverpool manager, assuming Benitez does go, is somewhere in the region of extremely slim to none. I reckon its more likely Fredo would lead a "Rafa out" campaign than Jose come to Anfield currently. He might have alluded to being interested in managing us at some point, but he's equally expressed interest in the ManU job.... (wiki) "I would consider going to Manchester United but United have to consider if they want me to succeed Sir Alex Ferguson. If they do, then of course.", and there is no way he'd consider going from CL winner (likely) to a side not even competing in it next year. Especially with the Madrid job on a plate.

So, if we must have this discussion while we still have a manager, can we try to keep it a bit realistic please? If we're discussing players we could buy nobody suggests Kaka or Messi, because that would be silly. Well suggesting Mourinho as manager is just as silly as things stand. Not to mention its been absolutely done to death, then way past that, making constructive or interesting debate on this topic basically impossible as soon as his name comes up.

This is the last time I will ask people to quit going on about him voluntarily, if it continues I really will just arbitrarily ban all mention of him from this forum

Exactly, Great post that's based on probability and reality, people are banging on and on about Maurine...becasue in reality they can't come up with an real candidates that would come here and do better than what we have...so they go on and on about Maurine, change the record ffs, the very high likelyhood is he won't be coming.

[Leyton388]

My sentiments exactly People oin here are losing sight of what made this club great... winning trophies and to be more specific .. League titles. The only criteria that the new owners should have in choosing a new manager is this. As for being annoying? an egomaniac? I couldn't give a toss if he brings home# 19 and finally confines Fergie to the graveyard he belongs.

Anyone on here who doesn't think that Shankly often wound up opposing team supporters is off his bin. The man was constantly taunting Everton. Told the world how Liverpool was the greatest city in the world, my players are better than anyone else's etc. Add 40 years and you get Jose. Shanks made us great cos he imbued his own self-confidence into the team. He didn't give a toss who he pissed off in the process as long as the end goal of "bread & butter" winning leagues was achieved. I think we need to get real

We've had gentlemen who wouldn't bat an eyelid in anger (Roy & GH) and a politician (Rafa) and it hasn't bloody worked. We need a bloody minded egotistical LEADER to get us back to where we belong. An outstanding tactical mind with an eye for a player (6 of the starting 11 vs Barca were signed by him last summer). That I'm afraid to say is Jose.

We need a manager who can give us that **** everyone else attitude and Jose is that man. Shanks did it and we reaped the rewards and Jose has done it at every club he has been to.

If we can get new owners in soon i think Jose would jump at the chance to manage LFC. The fact that he would love to take LFC and put it back to the top of world football as the greatest club around would appeal to his massive ego! He wants to come back to english football and basically gave a come and get me plea to english clubs when he did the interview a few weeks back.