Post-mortem Northampton

[Shaggy]

Northampton are in league 2 and we were knocked out by non-league Worcester City in 1959, according to Spionkop on SCM. But I guess this ranks as the worst in modern history.

When we lost to Worcester we were in the 2nd division. I should've clarified...as a top flight team, I think it's the first time we've ever been dumped out by a 4th division side.

By the way 'League 2' is the fourth division, but then I'm sure you know that.

[danperkins]

Some serious knee jerking going on, i shal lsit back,relax and watch the mayhem unfold on this thread

[Kenneth]

You could go a lot worse, you know!

right, but pedantic, I can see the appeal

[Shaggy]

Worst start for 18 years in the league and our arses handed to us in our own backyard by a 4th division team for the first time. Go Roy

[peekay]

When we lost to Worcester we were in the 2nd division. I should've clarified...as a top flight team, I think it's the first time we've ever been dumped out by a 4th division side.

By the way 'League 2' is the fourth division, but then I'm sure you know that.

Actually I did not

[Shaggy]

Actually I did not

They are currently 85th of the 92 league clubs. Played 7, 7 points, lost 3-1 at Shrewsbury at the weekend and are decimated by injuries.

And they outplayed us.

[Buzzo]

It really is not Craig. Before I start my criticism of Roy, let me assure you that I am firmly in the give Roy some more time camp.

Roy's off the pitch demeanour and reaction to the defeats and our poor performance has been disappointing and it is obvious that he has friends in the media. I cringed when I read his response to the Shelvey question. It was the perfect opportunity to give a young player some boost.

Same with his response to Ferguson's "Torres is a cheat comment" after Nani spent the entire match on the floor. Show some ****ing cojones, Roy. You are the freaking manager of LFC now. It is not a popularily contest. Do you think Rafa, GH, Kenny, and the holy trinity would have taken such comments lightly. Even if they looked bad in the media, they would have gone out of the way to attack Ferguson.

One of the things Roy still has not understood is the importance of the emotional bond LFC fans have with their managers. Once we get the feeling the manager is willing to get into a street fight to protect our club, he will get a lot more leeway and support. It was obvious to us fans that Rafa and GH got it. With Roy, I see more of a diplomat. Even if Roy is successful - I see an Owen type of support. With Rafa and GH - it was more like Fowler.

Nice. Good post.

[red g]

When we lost to Worcester we were in the 2nd division. I should've clarified...as a top flight team, I think it's the first time we've ever been dumped out by a 4th division side.

By the way 'League 2' is the fourth division, but then I'm sure you know that.

Outplayed to

We managed 4 attempts on target

[Rich]

Why has the Burnley cup defeat been trotted out by Rafa-hatez?

The defeat last night was on entirely different level to the comedic Traore own goal.

[Rich]

Surely a more accurate comparison would be the wobbles but subsequent beating of Havant & Waterlooville?

[Buzzo]

Some serious knee jerking going on, i shal lsit back,relax and watch the mayhem unfold on this thread

How so? We got dumped out of a very winable cup by Northampton Town... Perfect opportunity to show some passion and vitriol as supporters. What else are we supposed to say, "ah never mind Roy, there's always next season"?

The manager and players need to know we won't stand for a performance like last nights.

[Shaggy]

Why has the Burnley cup defeat been trotted out by Rafa-hatez?

The defeat last night was on entirely different level to the comedic Traore own goal.

You have to either laugh at or pity these idiots. I read earlier that we "lost even more embarrassingly at Burnley under Benitez with a stronger team out".

Er...

Liverpool: Dudek, Raven, Hyypia, Whitbread, Traore (Baros 65), Nunez, Biscan, Welsh (Mellor 75), Potter, Warnock, Sinama Pongolle.

Subs Not Used: Otsemobor, Harrison, Smyth.

[Kenneth]

Why has the Burnley cup defeat been trotted out by Rafa-hatez?

The defeat last night was on entirely different level to the comedic Traore own goal.

'Rafa haters' / 'roy appologists' etc, the tone of this place stinks at the moment.

[Shaggy]

'Rafa haters' / 'roy appologists' etc, the toe of this place stinks at the moment.

It's the same everywhere. The 'Rafa haters' made their bed...now they've gotta lie in it.

[malg]

Nicked from elsewhere

I've read a few posts now saying 'give Roy a chance'. 'the players are just as much to blame'. I have decided to post the reasons why I feel Hodgson is the most culpable person for this result. Feel free to counter argue if you disagree.

Firstly he made 11 changes for a cup game. Now, when Benitez first started mass rotations the media were up in arms, saying he did not take the cup seriously. But Benitez always left experienced players on the bench as a fall back in case things got tricky. Hodgson did no such thing. While I welcomed the change in personnel (though was frankly concerned at so many changes) not having any experience in case of emergency was a bad mistake.

The make up and formation of the team was also questionable. Hodgson effectively played 4 Cbs in a flat back four. I know Kelly has played quite a bit at RB but he is more suited to a central berth, while Wilson is still raw and an unknown quantity, but was signed as a CB. Again, while it can be argued that players playing FB rather than CB is not that problematic, there was no plan B on the bench, no back-up in case it all went wrong.

In midfield we had the inexperienced Spearing and Pacheco, as well as the experienced Lucas and newbie but experienced Jova. Unfortunately the make-up of the midfield was unbalanced. Pacheco is an attacking player who is usually played centrally and behind the strike force. Jova is a wide man who hugs the touchline. Last night Spearing and Lucas played deep like you would in a 433, Jova stayed wide like a standard winger in 442, while pacheco kept cutting into central positions. The result was massive gaps all over the pitch, put particularly across the middle of the park.

Up front both Ngog and Babel seemed confused as to their role. Were they playing a 442 side by side, or a 433 with Babel in the hole? In the end both players just ran to wherever they thought they could get the ball. Babel kept occupying the same space as Jova, while Ngog kept dropping off to try to receive the ball. There was no synergy between the forwards and none between the forwards and midfield.

The game panned out strangely, a static backline rarely venturing forward, a wayward midfield following their own instincts rather than a gameplan and unorthodox forward play by strikers unclear as to the role they were playing. The shape of the team was poor and needed direction, but none was forthcoming from the manager.

After the game Hodgson claimed that the team didn't play as he wanted them to, until the last 15 minutes. This criticism of the the team by the manager (and I really don't like our manager making comments like this) automatically generates the following question. If you didn't like the way the team was playing, why didn't you change it? This is the next mistake by the manager, imo, the slowness of reaction. It was not until the 90 minutes that he made his first change. The same lack of gameplan and discordant formation was in evidence and still in use in normal playing time. Why wait so long to make a move? Is that not poor management? Even when the change came, it made little sense. One of our experienced players (Jova) was taken off from a wide position and replaced by Ecclestone, a would be forward. Now the imbalance on the right was being mirrored by the imbalance on the left. Little wonder that a tiring and ragged Wilson was caught out of position and lacking cover for the second goal. With no experience on the bench and changes coming so late, inexperienced and young players like Wilson and Pacheco were out on their feet.

the next change when it came was also inexplicable. Jonjo, a box to box midfielder, came on for Ryan Babel. Now, say what you like about Babel and his performance, but taking him off when a goal was needed and penalties in the offing for a midfielder was not the move of a man with a clear plan. Rather it was reactive, and while Jonjo did well, it still reflects the managers bizarre frame of mind. The final substitution was even more unusual, Young Ince, a raw talent, but not the man to get goals or be in place for penalties came on for a flagging Pacheco. Now, having Pacheco for penalties would have been useful, but I can understand the need to replace him... but for someone so far from first team football?

In the end we clawed back a goal, but only in the most ridiculous manner. We sent a CB up front, played 3 at the back and started balls long in the hope Soto would get a flick on. That is the recourse of the desperate, a long ball game unsuited to a top side... however, Hodgson later admitted that it was during this period that the team played as he wanted them to. Is this what Hodgson wants from his team? 3 CBs pumping long balls over the the top of a mish mash of midfielders to a big man up front? Is that where we want our manager to take us as a club?

The final error as I see it was in the selection of the penalty takers. Selecting a raft of youngster to take the penalties was a mistake, originating from the lack of experienced options on the bench and compounded by the decision to withdraw our most experienced players (Babel and Jova, the goal scorer) from the pitch. Ecclestone should not have been asked to take on such a responsibility, nor should Jonjo (though kudos to him, he took his goal well).

Ultimately this was a failing of management, someone who did not take the competition or the opposition seriously, put out a poorly balanced and prepared team, failed to rectify errors due to a lack of options from the bench or an alternative plan B if plan A failed and who selected too many inexperienced and raw players for the final test, a penalty shoot-out.

One final observation; When Benitez struggled to make 4th last year, at least he was competing for that position, and that was with a raft of injuries and poor officiating decisions (beachball). Already with nearly the same team Hodgson has us mired near relegation and out of a cup. He has already as good as said in the media we need to re-evaluate our expectations, that this team is not good enough to challenge. Thing is, only 2 of the players he brought in were on show and he withdrew 1 of those. Where was Cole, Poulsen and Meireles last night? They all need playing time for match fitness and to gel with team mates. How come they weren't at least on the bench? They are his players after all.

Spot on. I feel really uneasy about Hodgeson at the helm and have been since we got him. I honestly feel for the first time in me supporting liverpool (40 Years now ) that we could be facing relegation unless we lose hodge and quickly.