Raul Meireles

[danperkins]

No I think condensing the play does many things

Firstly the idea is that the ball is kept as far away from your own goal you dont invite pressure on

Secondly it shuts down the opposition high up the pitch and you then win the ball high up the pitch and turn it over quickly

The problem with Rafa was he never got the attacking players that can turn possession high up the pitch into goals. Some of that is his fault but I also feel those players cost bucket loads of cash in general so maybe, just maybe he had mitigating circumstances

Now we have a different central pairing so we are not going to control and dictate the play as high up the pitch as we did with Alonso etc BUT I'd rather keep the ball in the opposition half and press them and be predictable than give ground, retreat and let the opposition have possession and fire balls into our box at will

This isnt Zaire, we are not Mohammed Ali trying to rope-a-dope

We have a glass jaw one punch is enough to take our head off

Money was an issue, but the likes of Kewell/Pennant/Gonzalez/Nunez/Babel/Maxi/Benny/Riera etc have been bought and none of these players have really addressed the problem areas. Fees and wages add up. Mitigating circumstances excuse only gets you so far, truth being Rafa and now Roy should have sorted this out but they didn't, we'll see what Roy does in January if he is still here. As i've said before i would have ratherd noy buying Merieles as we didn't really need him as such and spending money on other problem areas e.g LM. We already have Lucas/Poulsen/Gerrard/Cole who can play centrally, i was disappointed this area in particular wasn't addressed.

We lacked the proper width under Rafa and still do under Roy, under Rafa we had left and right backs that weren't productive like say Ashley Cole/Evra etc and add to that LM/RM's that weren't productive either (Kuyt the exception in some seasons), teams pack the central areas as its inevitable its coming there, this makes us one dimensional and predictable, the fact that we have Torres and Gerrard (2 of the best players in the world) is a blessing for us, imagine Torres/Gerrard/Alonso/Masch with 2 good wingers, would have been a nightmare to play against.

Wide areas have not been addressed in years, stop gap players coming and going and with little or no reward. LM/RM/LB/RB positions need to be nailed down once and for all. It is vital Roy sorts this **** out sooner rather than later.

[Lecter]

Teams need width, they need players who can beat a man, get down the line and get balls in. Are you suggesting we don't lack width? Or that we don't need more width?

United,Chelsea, Barca, have or have had the likes of Ronaldo/Nani/Giggs/Iniesta/Pedro/Messi/Malouda etc we have precisly "0" out and out wingers, which means zero productivity from the wide areas. Kuyt does his best fro out width and over the years has had a decent level of production but we need more options at RM, and take the "LM" position for example, when was the last time you could say that we have have a successful left midfielder at Liverpool F.C.?

In an team that already lacks pace and guile, adding the problem of zero wingers or width = Bad News

I am not sure I would class all those players as out and out wingers and I would go so far as saying many of those listed only give width on rare occasions

You dont need out and out wingers unless you are playing 4-4-2 which I hope we dont anytime soon because it would be a disaster with the players we have available

What you need is players willing to give width when needed

The best LFC side I have ever seen had no genuine wingers but players that would give width when it was required (those players were Ray Kennedy and Jimmy Case)

[Lecter]

Money was an issue, but the likes of Kewell/Pennant/Gonzalez/Nunez/Babel/Maxi/Benny/Riera etc have been bought and none of these players have really addressed the problem areas. Fees and wages add up. Mitigating circumstances excuse only gets you so far, truth being Rafa and now Roy should have sorted this out but they didn't, we'll see what Roy does in January if he is still here. As i've said before i would have ratherd noy buying Merieles as we didn't really need him as such and spending money on other problem areas e.g LM.

We lacked the proper width under Rafa and still do under Roy, under Rafa we had left and right backs that weren't productive like say Ashley Cole/Evra etc and add to that LM/RM's that weren't productive either (Kuyt the exception in some seasons), teams pack the central areas as its inevitable its coming there, this makes us one dimensional and predictable, the fact that we have Torres and Gerrard (2 of the best players in the world) is a blessing for us, imagine Torres/Gerrard/Alonso/Masch with 2 good wingers, would have been a nightmare to play against.

Wide areas have not been addressed in years, stop gap players coming and going and with little or no reward. LM/RM/LB/RB positions need to be nailed down once and for all. It is vital Roy sorts this **** out sooner rather than later.

It does mitigate so far but Benitez tried for Simao (failed), Alves (failed), Malouda (failed)

So although blame can be pointed at him beating him up over it is at best pointless

Also he didnt sign Kewell (who was a free) he bought Gonzalez for buttons (£1.5 million) and got Nunez on a free and Maxi was again cheap (£1.5 million again?)

Yes Babel, Benayoun & Riera cost money and maybe all werent successful

I wouldnt let Hodgson near a January transfer kitty even if he guaranteed he was only going to sign wide players. I have no interest in seeing what ****e he would come up with

[danperkins]

I am not sure I would class all those players as out and out wingers and I would go so far as saying many of those listed only give width on rare occasions

You dont need out and out wingers unless you are playing 4-4-2 which I hope we dont anytime soon because it would be a disaster with the players we have available

What you need is players willing to give width when needed

The best LFC side I have ever seen had no genuine wingers but players that would give width when it was required (those players were Ray Kennedy and Jimmy Case)

Well call it it out and out wingers or call it getting productivity from wide areas, its still doing the job required.

And Ronaldo/Nani/Giggs/Iniesta/Pedro/Messi/Malouda have all made their names playing in wide areas.

[danperkins]

It does mitigate so far but Benitez tried for Simao (failed), Alves (failed), Malouda (failed)

So although blame can be pointed at him beating him up over it is at best pointless

I wouldnt let Hodgson near a January transfer kitty I have no interest in seeing what ****e he would come up with

Alves is a headless chicken, Simao hasn't played well in a long time so thanks christ we didn't get them, and Malouda cost £13 million quid, sure Babel cost £11.5 million?

Ever manager tries and fails to get the players they want, whether its a second choice player it doesn't matter the wide areas have seen failure after failure and all the spent does add up mate.

The position should have been sorted years ago and Roy better sort it out in January. Worried and curious to see who he brings in.

P.S. Regardless if some are free, they are still here at LFC and still getting paid bucket loads over the years with out any productivity.

[red g]

It does mitigate so far but Benitez tried for Simao (failed), Alves (failed), Malouda (failed)

So although blame can be pointed at him beating him up over it is at best pointless

Also he didnt sign Kewell (who was a free) he bought Gonzalez for buttons (£1.5 million) and got Nunez on a free and Maxi was again cheap (£1.5 million again?)

Yes Babel, Benayoun & Riera cost money and maybe all werent successful

I wouldnt let Hodgson near a January transfer kitty even if he guaranteed he was only going to sign wide players. I have no interest in seeing what ****e he would come up with

Damien Duff and Chris Brunt

[Lecter]

Alves is a headless chicken, Simao hasn't played well in a long time so thanks christ we didn't get them, and Malouda cost £13 million quid, sure Babel cost £11.5 million?

Ever manager tries and fails to get the players they want, whether its a second choice player it doesn't matter the wide areas have seen failure after failure and all the spent does add up mate.

The position should have been sorted years ago and Roy better sort it out in January.

Thats your opinion once again personally I'd have taken any and all those 3. Maloda turned us down so what he went for and what we paid for Babel is kind of irrelevant. If we didnt have the money for Malouda and did for Babel then thats a different story but it wasnt the case

The spend does add up if you weigh it up without balancing the sales against

IE getting Nunez on a free and selling him for £1.5 million, buying Gonzalez for £1.5 million and selling for what £3 million? Pennant we lost money on, Benayoun we about broke even on and Rieira we lost money on but these are marginal amounts you are talking

Yes if you talk gross figures on all of these its a **** load of money but those funds were never available all in one go and we had to trade from one player to another often to generate the cash to move on to the next

The only money available that was significantly wasted was Babel

Riera was crap but who else could we have bought for that amount?

[Lecter]

Damien Duff and Chris Brunt

FLMAO exactly

No thanks

[dom9]

Not disagreeing with you at all mate but the point being we lacked and still lack any sort of width.

We didn't lack width if the tactic was to condense the play. They are mutually exclusive.

[Lecter]

Well call it it out and out wingers or call it getting productivity from wide areas, its still doing the job required.

And Ronaldo/Nani/Giggs/Iniesta/Pedro/Messi/Malouda have all made their names playing in wide areas.

Messi made his name in wide areas???

HMMMMMMMMMMM

Not convinced of that one

Fact is very few of those players are out and out wingers

In fact there are virtually no out and out wingers anywhere these days its an old fashioned term for a player that no longer exists

[Buzzo]

Big difference between playing with wingers, and playing with width.

We do neither.

[Lecter]

Big difference between playing with wingers, and playing with width.

We do neither.

Exactly

[Imy]

Messi made his name in wide areas???

HMMMMMMMMMMM

Not convinced of that one

Fact is very few of those players are out and out wingers

In fact there are virtually no out and out wingers anywhere these days its an old fashioned term for a player that no longer exists

Most of the list danperkins listed play centrally or certainly cut in (very much like our 'wide' players).

What we need is attackers with pace and guile, ones that can put the ball in the back of the net too would be really great too.

Don't know any top teams nowadays that play with out and out sideline touching wingers any more.

[DannyMan2006]

Liverpools problem under Rafa was the inability to sign the top players. And that's why we end up with gambles. Agreed in that every signing is a gamble, but when you ate competing for European Cups and Premier league titles then if you end up without the players you want sometimes you pay.

The players we missed out on reads back as a whose who of world class players, be they Malouda, Alves, Villa, Eto'o, Vidic or Evra. Soon we'll be in a position to attract them and what we need is a manager to recognise the top talent and mould them.

[Imy]

Big difference between playing with wingers, and playing with width.

We do neither.

In the modern era a lot of the width comes from the full backs - Chelsea, Utd and Barca are good examples.

Yesterday we had Carra and Konchesky who were very poor in the attcaking third.