Only a point worse off?

[danperkins]

From my point of view I find it a bit silly that people seem to be so sure that our dreadful start last year was just down to bad luck and bad performances. The tactics were also shocking. Every time we lost or conceded goals at the starts of last season we became even more defensive and played even deeper. That was our biggest problem, the negativity. We played very very deep and obviously the Lucas/Mascherano combo which we persisted with was a major handicap. We have played alot of terrible games this season and I don't support Hodgson but I'll never forget our outrageous gameplans from last season either.

In august we were beaten by Spurs and Villa. In september/october/november we were beaten by Fiorentina, Sunderland, Chelsea, Lyon, Arsenal, Fulham and Everton. Thats a hell of a lot of defeats and alot of it was down to negativity. Btw we also lost Wigan away last season. Same old same old with Liverpool

[calvoboy]

The fixture list hasn't made Roy look bad it's the performances that are the problem! Yes we were poor last year but we were much better than we are this year. Also last season we were struggling to get results as we had so many injuries, we were forced to change the team almost week on week, this year we a have a fairly settled team.

Also while I can see why you have taken results of the promoted teams out and no compared them directly with one team or another I don't think this approach is valid, as all the relegated/promoted teams account for up to 18 points a season. If one season we win all those points and the next season we lose them all, we could match results in every other game and be 18 points worse off, this is not an insignificant amount!

If we take the averages of the points we obtained in the home games (3pts) and away games (1.33pts) last season and apply them to the new teams this season we are 4 points worse off (not 1) which would make a significant difference - it would currnetly put us in 5th on 20points 1 point behind City and 3 ahead of Newcastle.

Personally, I agree it's the performance that causes the criticism - in the original post I was just trying to ask a couple of open rhetorical questions to spark a debate, and trying not to close the debate by putting my own interpretation on it as much as possible.

On the newly promoted teams, I just don't agree with including them in a like for like comparison as I think there are problems with whichever way you try to account for them. They are not a generic bunch. I'd include an explanatory footnote probably, showing results against newly promotes sides last year for illustrative purposes only.

[Pablo]

IMO it has got much more competitive, i think the results thus far have proved that. The promoted teams are far stronger and playing much better football than previous years, going to the likes of Newcastle,Blackpool.West Brom etc is not considered a given anymore.

If missing the point was an Olympic sport, you'd be a Champion my friend

I think it is more competitive because more teams are worse. less top players, defenses look shocking almost universally. It's a piss poor league quality wise and the success of the promoted teams is more a damning indictment of the dross that was there than an indication that they are particularly better than teams who have been in the division previously.

Sanity is restored

[danperkins]

If missing the point was an Olympic sport, you'd be a Champion my friend



Sanity is restored

Lick arse, hey i'm the real Pablo you remember that you fraud!!!!!

[Mostar]

From my point of view I find it a bit silly that people seem to be so sure that our dreadful start last year was just down to bad luck and bad performances. The tactics were also shocking. Every time we lost or conceded goals at the starts of last season we became even more defensive and played even deeper. That was our biggest problem, the negativity. We played very very deep and obviously the Lucas/Mascherano combo which we persisted with was a major handicap. We have played alot of terrible games this season and I don't support Hodgson but I'll never forget our outrageous gameplans from last season either.

In august we were beaten by Spurs and Villa. In september/october/november we were beaten by Fiorentina, Sunderland, Chelsea, Lyon, Arsenal, Fulham and Everton. Thats a hell of a lot of defeats and alot of it was down to negativity. Btw we also lost Wigan away last season. Same old same old with Liverpool

Pretty much my own summary of last year but Roy made us worse no doubt about that.

[RichC]

From my point of view I find it a bit silly that people seem to be so sure that our dreadful start last year was just down to bad luck and bad performances. The tactics were also shocking. Every time we lost or conceded goals at the starts of last season we became even more defensive and played even deeper. That was our biggest problem, the negativity. We played very very deep and obviously the Lucas/Mascherano combo which we persisted with was a major handicap. We have played alot of terrible games this season and I don't support Hodgson but I'll never forget our outrageous gameplans from last season either.

In august we were beaten by Spurs and Villa. In september/october/november we were beaten by Fiorentina, Sunderland, Chelsea, Lyon, Arsenal, Fulham and Everton. Thats a hell of a lot of defeats and alot of it was down to negativity. Btw we also lost Wigan away last season. Same old same old with Liverpool

It shows just quite how bad we've been for a season and a half now that we're essentially in the same position as we were 12 months ago.

Poor signings and trying to fit square pegs into round holes is really not helping either - the amazing thing is I don't think the first team is a million miles off, we need a few players granted but if god forbid we fitted the system around the players we actually have I think we'd be looking far better than we currently are.

Under Roy though we are going to be stuck with the same old stuff he's done for decades, a new young manager, own ideas and is going to be here for the long term is what we need!

[-V-]

We beat Chelsea 2-0 on sunday and all the millions watching will have seen what we are capable of. So clearly our first team is not far off but as usual we are Liverpool and we are completely incapable of dominating away against **** teams. Some things never change, atleast not until you have a manager who is fearless and values the risk of going for 3 points over settling for 1 point

[Arn]

Before the games last season at least I had a feeling that we could win the game and it didn't matter who we played.

Now I'm just surprised if we get a point out of the game. I don't feel that we will win the game even if it is **** team we play against.

Rafa set out the team get a result and attack the weaknesses the opposition have.

Roy don't seem to give a **** about how the opposition play. All he seem to care about is how we play. If the opposition has an obvious weakness then you can be sure that Roy won't use that against them.

We will just sit back and defend, defend, defend. No plan B in sight. The opposition can just figure out our weakness knowing that Roy won't change a thing and then use that against us.

Rafa is a master tactician and Roy is simply a manager that only know one way to play football.

Maybe we are one point off but we won't close the gap. That is almost 100% sure.

[RichC]

We beat Chelsea 2-0 on sunday and all the millions watching will have seen what we are capable of. So clearly our first team is not far off but as usual we are Liverpool and we are completely incapable of dominating away against **** teams. Some things never change, atleast not until you have a manager who is fearless and values the risk of going for 3 points over settling for 1 point

yup it's been our achillies heel for far too long, I really hope the next manager that comes in has a touch of that arrogance I think you need to basically take the team on the road and think "I don't care if we're playing at your place, we are Liverpool" obviously can't do it with every side but look at the mid to lower tier teams and take it to them.

Have a feeling we'll be waiting until next season to even potentially have that though.

[Exiled_red]

Personally, I agree it's the performance that causes the criticism - in the original post I was just trying to ask a couple of open rhetorical questions to spark a debate, and trying not to close the debate by putting my own interpretation on it as much as possible.

On the newly promoted teams, I just don't agree with including them in a like for like comparison as I think there are problems with whichever way you try to account for them. They are not a generic bunch. I'd include an explanatory footnote probably, showing results against newly promotes sides last year for illustrative purposes only.

I think with results/performances, if you are winning games the end justifies the means and few people will complain, if you aren't winning games but are performing well, you generally consider yourselves to be unlucky. But if you're playing badly and not winning games there's nothing to hold on to that's where we are at the moment, and for me it can't go on.

As for the new/old teams I don't think you out right ignore them in a comparison, because those games account for a significant proportion of the season, games against those clubs accounted for 13/63 points last season (~20% of the total number of points). While it's wrong to say Burnley = Blackpool or whatever I think you have to include them, and I think what I said above is valid as we effectively have to make up those points against the new clubs. And as I said that would put us 4 points worse off than last year. ...Just my 2p for what it's worth

[Zapater]

The thing that gets me about this season, and I think it disappoints many others too is, that the results would be more satisfying if it looked like we were putting the steps in place to play attractive football and win games and not getting the results. Whereas it looks like we're putting the steps in place to play an inferior quality of football as well as lose further games.

[Drago]

The thing that gets me about this season, and I think it disappoints many others too is, that the results would be more satisfying if it looked like we were putting the steps in place to play attractive football and win games and not getting the results. Whereas it looks like we're putting the steps in place to play an inferior quality of football as well as lose further games.

End of thread

[meffin]

Deleted- I'm stupid

[jonymadness]

City A -1

think you might be a point off their bud. 2 points worse off then, UNACCEPTABLE!!!

[SimonNo7]

From my point of view I find it a bit silly that people seem to be so sure that our dreadful start last year was just down to bad luck and bad performances. The tactics were also shocking. Every time we lost or conceded goals at the starts of last season we became even more defensive and played even deeper. That was our biggest problem, the negativity. We played very very deep and obviously the Lucas/Mascherano combo which we persisted with was a major handicap. We have played alot of terrible games this season and I don't support Hodgson but I'll never forget our outrageous gameplans from last season either.

In august we were beaten by Spurs and Villa. In september/october/november we were beaten by Fiorentina, Sunderland, Chelsea, Lyon, Arsenal, Fulham and Everton. Thats a hell of a lot of defeats and alot of it was down to negativity. Btw we also lost Wigan away last season. Same old same old with Liverpool

Can't disagree with you there, and to be honest at the end of the day it's points that count not how you play. As far as I am concerned we can play the poorest kind of football ever witnessed but if we end up with more points than every other team in the English Premier League I couldn't give a ****. Football is about winning, not showing off!