Only a point worse off?

[Vermilion]

I don't think that is true. I think what is happening is that people are looking at the performances as well as the past record of Hodgson and wondering if there is any evidence that either performances or results are likely to improve.

In the good passages of play we have seen there is hope we could do better in terms of the personnel. In terms of the tactics adopted I don't think there is.

I think basically everyone agrees that for various reasons the performances last season were unacceptable. No matter who was in charge we had to show improvement, especially as the league has weakened again. We haven't. In fact even the defence you are putting up suggests we are in fact slightly worse than last season when we were abject. I didn't actually think worse was a possibility but Roy has changed my thinking on that.

[calvoboy]

Two points worse off now:

Stoke (A) -1

I think the weekend emphasised more than ever that it's not the points difference it's the way that we are playing...even though we are still doing slightly worse in points terms than we did in a very poor season last year.

[Fredo]

The league is arguably weaker this season.

[Exiled_red]

The league is arguably weaker this season.

If we'd beaten Sunderland and Blackpool at home, two games that should have been winable, we'd have been in 5th (one point off 4th) and would still have had a very poor start to the season (losing 4 and drawing 3)

[danperkins]

The league is arguably weaker this season.

IMO its completely the opposite

[Fernandinho]

I think the league is mixed between the top teams being worse and the lower/mid table teams being better.

[rnm]

If you do swap out relgated teams, we are five points worse off. From the 08/09 season we are 14 points worse off...nine away, five at home after 13 games.

[Lecter]

IMO its completely the opposite

Its more competitive no doubt BUT...

That is imo because the quality of the top teams has degraded and the crap teams at the bottom have improved

[Fredo]

IMO its completely the opposite

No it's not. The general level of the top 4 has gone down. Do you think that Sunderland beating Chelsea 3-0 at Stamford Bridge would have been possible 2/3 years ago?

The example of our own team is enough to substantiate the argument that the league is getting weaker.

Don't misconstrue it with 'competitiveness'.

If you do swap out relgated teams, we are five points worse off. From the 08/09 season we are 14 points worse off...nine away, five at home after 13 games.

See above.

[rnm]

No it's not. The general level of the top 4 has gone down. Do you think that Sunderland beating Chelsea 3-0 at Stamford Bridge would have been possible 2/3 years ago?

The example of our own team is enough to substantiate the argument that the league is getting weaker.

Don't misconstrue it with 'competitiveness'.



See above.

see above what?

[dww]

Its more competitive no doubt BUT...

That is imo because the quality of the top teams has degraded and the crap teams at the bottom have improved

Agree definitely about the top teams.

My feeling is that two areas are almost universally worse than a few years ago and I suspect they are linked. The first is fitness. I'm not quite sure what the change is but up to about two years ago the PL teams looked the fittest and strongest in Europe. Last year Manchester United were out run by Bayern and it happened to PL teams in a number of other European games too that I vaguely remember.

This seems to have had a knock on effect on defending. About a year or so ago Torres gave an interview talking about the differences between Spain and England and saying that defences are less tactically aware here but faster and more physical. Somehow the balance has tipped away from being very effective to just a bit disorganised in the last year or so.

In a lot of ways I'm not convinced that the teams at the bottom are notably better than in previous years but I merely think they are all attack minded in a league which has porous defences.

So far my impression of (the admittedly limited) games I have seen this season is that no one can defend apart from in numbers. It may make for a more competitive league and possibly more goals but I don't think it is an improvement quality-wise.

[Fredo]

see above what?

Sorry maybe I didn't understand the point you were making.

[DannyMan2006]

I think the Liverpool team of 08\09 would walk this league. The quality of the teams is much worse overall. A few normally mid table sides have no doubt improved slightly, whilst the promoted teams have been stronger than normal. But other than that, I think sides have gone backwards.

That said, Chelsea only look weak because normal 30-38 game a season players like Lampard and Terry are out long term, plus they failed to replace Carvalho with another CB.

With us resting our first team players in the Europa games this season was a golden opportunity to at the very least finish 4th. Disaster that we are likely gonna be mid table no marks.

[rnm]

Sorry maybe I didn't understand the point you were making.

I'm just pissed off, like us all. Just pointing out some stats fella.

[Fredo]

I'm just pissed off, like us all. Just pointing out some stats fella.