Do you want Rafa back?

[Arn]

Arn,

I get what you mean but many many managers work in conditions that are not ideal. Even maureen who knows how to get the jobs that will work for him doesnt have totally ideal conditons.

in the end people have to get on with it. Rafa has to sometimes get on with it.

Whilst there are good reasons for him not doing why then should every manager at every club not do what Rafa does.

by the way i would be described as being in the RCDNW club is there ever was one.

and he speaks up and doesn't get blamed doing it. He got sacked by Chelsea when he did that and now started to do the same at Real.

The difference is that Mourinho do it so often that you really don't listen when he do it. He moan and moan and moan about everything. Inter of course also spent €80m net his first season and that makes it a lot easier.

[cled the red]

Aquilani is one. Kuyt another. He should have signed an out and out striker instead of him.

I don't blame him for the Keane signing. Everyone know who took that decision.

Then we have a couple of signings his first season, Josemi and Morientes. Pennant a couple of years later. Voronin and Itandje the following year.

Dossena and Degen the 2008-09 season. Babel of course.

The positive thing is that he got rid of the players not good enough as soon as he could and by that way admitted the mistake he did when he signed them making a profit on many of them.

Kuyt was bought as an out and out striker - he scoring record at Feyenoord was impressive.

Shame he couldn't hit the back end of a horse with a banjo when he joined us - credit him for re-inventing himself as a wide midfielder who reqularly chips in with goals, especially in big games.

[Mattshark]

Kuyt was bought as an out and out striker - he scoring record at Feyenoord was impressive.

Shame he couldn't hit the back end of a horse with a banjo when he joined us - credit him for re-inventing himself as a wide midfielder who reqularly chips in with goals, especially in big games.

Agreed, Kuyt may have not been what we have signed, but he has still been a great player for us.

[cled the red]

Agreed, Kuyt may have not been what we have signed, but he has still been a great player for us.

[Neil Young]

Aquilani is one. Kuyt another. He should have signed an out and out striker instead of him.

I don't blame him for the Keane signing. Everyone know who took that decision.

Then we have a couple of signings his first season, Josemi and Morientes. Pennant a couple of years later. Voronin and Itandje the following year.

Dossena and Degen the 2008-09 season. Babel of course.

The positive thing is that he got rid of the players not good enough as soon as he could and by that way admitted the mistake he did when he signed them making a profit on many of them.

Thanks.

I think you're quite wrong to call Kuyt a bad signing. It's incomprehensible to me how you can say that seriously.

The rest, I agree.

[Arn]

Thanks.

I think you're quite wrong to call Kuyt a bad signing. It's incomprehensible to me how you can say that seriously.

The rest, I agree.

The reason to why I see Kuyt as a bad signing is that Rafa almost never used him as an out and out striker. He clearly signed him to play on the right.

A player that play on the right/left must have the ability to beat his man and make quality crosses. That is the sort of player Rafa should have signed instead of Kuyt.

Kuyt have been good but Rafa should have signed a different sort of player but that is my opinion.

[dww]

The reason to why I see Kuyt as a bad signing is that Rafa almost never used him as an out and out striker. He clearly signed him to play on the right.

A player that play on the right/left must have the ability to beat his man and make quality crosses. That is the sort of player Rafa should have signed instead of Kuyt.

Kuyt have been good but Rafa should have signed a different sort of player but that is my opinion.

I think he was a good call to be honest. He is a pretty good second striker and did well with both Crouch and Torres when used there. Sadly he couldn't be the main man up front (which I think he was bought to be) in the PL.

I think the way he was player early on shows what Rafa's intentions were. The fact that both he and Kuyt are adaptable should be seen as a plus point for both in my view.

I also really think the idea that every wide player has to be able to beat a man is a fallacy to. In general you do need some players who can do it in a team but I'm not sure that all wide have to be that style of player.

[fred_plasticine]

MrM, would you sit quiet in the corner doing nothing if you saw the club going down and you knew that you could achieve something if you had the balls to speak up and risk your job? Would you do that? I doubt it. I think you would have done the same as Rafa. You would risk your job because you love the club.

rafa didn't achieve anything by speaking out though. unless you count losing the job as an achievement, that is.

[Neil Young]

I think he was a good call to be honest. He is a pretty good second striker and did well with both Crouch and Torres when used there. Sadly he couldn't be the main man up front (which I think he was bought to be) in the PL.

I think the way he was player early on shows what Rafa's intentions were. The fact that both he and Kuyt are adaptable should be seen as a plus point for both in my view.

I also really think the idea that every wide player has to be able to beat a man is a fallacy to. In general you do need some players who can do it in a team but I'm not sure that all wide have to be that style of player.

I largely agree but don't you think he might have been signed for his qualities? It seems more likely to me he was bought for a number of possible roles (the three you say, since he'd played all of them in Holland) and it was a question of seeing which he would best be able to do over here.

The way Hodgson talked about Meireles suggests to me this way of thinking about players from outside the PL is more common than we (and old-school pundits) might think.

[dww]

I largely agree but don't you think he might have been signed for his qualities? It seems more likely to me he was bought for a number of possible roles (the three you say, since he'd played all of them in Holland) and it was a question of seeing which he would best be able to do over here.

The way Hodgson talked about Meireles suggests to me this way of thinking about players from outside the PL is more common than we (and old-school pundits) might think.

Certainly there is something to that argument. Rafa may well have had adaptability in mind (and it may have put Kuyt higher up a list of similarly valued players for him) but I do think he was primarily bought for his goalscoring, whatever position that was to come from.

I'm not sure it is necessarily a bad thing to look for either, unless you tie it to a rigid tactical plan in which, ideally, you require specialists in nearly every position. A few players capable of multiple roles is very useful (especially now there are squad size restrictions).

In fact ,one of the trends that can clearly be identified in recent years, I believe, is the increasing numbers of multifunctional players.

[dizzycat]

All I know is that now Rafas moved home and is living locally he should be welcomed to Anfield like any other ex great. I'd be delighted to see him sat there next to Rushy, Thommo and Kenny. He's earned earned equal consideration and if anyone can't deal with that they should be the ones being ****ed off.

[Kenneth]

I don't see why he shouldn't be welcomed, but then the same applied for Ged, a view that wasn't universally shared.

[RichC]

You can criticize him in a fair way. Rafa made many mistakes but to blame him for speaking up is totally bull****.

Blame him for bad signings, bad subs, bad tactics and so on. To blame him for speaking up is bull****.If you do that then you must look at why he had to do it.

Perhaps he should have quiet then when he made his rant about Fergie - for me that was the start of the decline

He did well to get us to 2nd but Rafa does enjoy confrontation - Valencia, Liverpool and Inter - he comes across as someone that's quite arguementative and no doubt is a hard man to work with - his way or the highway.

Rafa is a great manager but certainly has his flaws and the piece that was written did highlight some of his previous falling outs but was pretty balanced and highlighted how he's still well thought of in the game and has shown he's an excellent tactician.

Not every piece written is going to be overly positive or overly negative - some like this appear to deal in facts.

[dww]

Our form after the season wrecking 'rant' was actually pretty good wasn't it?

I still feel it was a move that had to be made at some point. Fergie has far too much sway in the PL.

I agree though that Arn seems to mistake a failure to agree with his point with a lack of balance.

My feeling is in general that Rafa comes across as an argumentative bugger as he is willing to get into difficult situations and has a slightly romantic view of how he can turn things round. You don't get Mourinho going in after someone elses unbeatable successes or to clubs with the 4th or 5th biggest budget in a division. Rafa aims for the best even when it is unattainable which is both a blessing and a curse.

I think in a lot of ways it is that sort of 'ambition' which we are missing now. Roys talking down of the team really does go against everything we as Liverpool fans are used to.

[RichC]

Our form after the season wrecking 'rant' was actually pretty good wasn't it?

I still feel it was a move that had to be made at some point. Fergie has far too much sway in the PL.

I agree though that Arn seems to mistake a failure to agree with his point with a lack of balance.

My feeling is in general that Rafa comes across as an argumentative bugger as he is willing to get into difficult situations and has a slightly romantic view of how he can turn things round. You don't get Mourinho going in after someone elses unbeatable successes or to clubs with the 4th or 5th biggest budget in a division. Rafa aims for the best even when it is unattainable which is both a blessing and a curse.

I think in a lot of ways it is that sort of 'ambition' which we are missing now. Roys talking down of the team really does go against everything we as Liverpool fans are used to.

All season we were pretty good but 3 draws on the trot at that time - Stoke, Everton and Wigan after beating the Toon 5 - 1 was ill timed and not needed, just stoked Fergie and his mob

I think Rafa was great for us, he really was and the ambition side of things is certainly something we're missing at the moment - christ most of us now expect a draw at best away from home - that's shocking so god knows what the players feel like.
The