Didier Deschamps

[Kenneth]

And, personally, if Torres wants to go, is sold for good money and a good manager comes in with a big budget, well that's not necessarily a bad thing. Rater build with him, but we can build without.

[Craig_H]

Top clubs dont sell their best players.

And even aside from Torres, the fact that NESV allow a man to stay at the club, doing more and more damage to us, sends a **** message to the world, to prospective signings, to everyone.

They are basically saying "We are LFC and not only do we accept that we are ****e, but we also arent in any hurry to do anything to change that"

[Kenneth]

Much as i've said i want rafa in - i do. But the priority is that the old duffer must go. He is the biggest obstacle between us keeping people like Torres.

Fact is, NESV keep sitting on their arses. And by doing so, they will be pushing Torres out the exit door.

Some big assumptions there though. We don't know that they are sitting on their arses. If they get Deschamps lined up for the summer, that will take some ground work. You seem to assume that Torres is out of the loop waitin to see what happens, this might not be so.

Change now likely equals extra money paid to Roy, money for a new manager and player purchases in Jan who may not be ideal for the new long term manager. And I really don't think the players will be chuffed to learn new methods for a manager who has less than 6 months in charge.

Said it earlier, but possibly 4 managers in a year, looking objectively, seems barmy and could make the players think we're a clueless club, or a club on crisis etc.

I don't think 4th place is going to make Torres happy by itself.

[Kenneth]

Top clubs dont sell their best players.

And even aside from Torres, the fact that NESV allow a man to stay at the club, doing more and more damage to us, sends a **** message to the world, to prospective signings, to everyone.

They are basically saying "We are LFC and not only do we accept that we are ****e, but we also arent in any hurry to do anything to change that"

They do if they want to leave, as we hae many times.

[Craig_H]

Do you think it's acceptable that we allow ourselves to be **** enough for our top players to want out then?

As for lining someone up for the summer - that still involves keeping Bodger for the season and therefore writing it off - and therefore most likely pissing off top players, who will likely leave.

If that's all ok with you, then we have different opinions on what's ok and what isnt.

[Kenneth]

Do you think it's acceptable that we allow ourselves to be **** enough for our top players to want out then?

As for lining someone up for the summer - that still involves keeping Bodger for the season and therefore writing it off - and therefore most likely pissing off top players, who will likely leave.

If that's all ok with you, then we have different opinions on what's ok and what isnt.

We obviously do. I don't see 6 months as being as crucial as you think it is. We are **** and i expect torres's to have views one way or the other by now. The plan we put together and sell in the summer will determine what players stay and what players join. 6 more more months with Bodge will change very little imo.

[Craig_H]

So you do think it's acceptable then?

[Kenneth]

So you do think it's acceptable then?

It's a stupid question.

Owen, Mach, Alonso, Rush, Gerrard... It's not a new thing or a phenomenon limited to now.

Another question; would a prospective manager look more favourably on a club that sacked it's previous manager after 6 months, or one that at least gave them a year to prove themselves?

I'm playing devils advocate a bit here because I would be delighted if Roy was sacked today, but I can see why it doesn't make sense for nesv and I don't think they should be lambasted for it.

[Craig_H]

A top class prospective manager would look at Hodgson's Liverpool and burst out laughing.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, I'm not so sure. Managers union and that.

[Cormack74]

Little aside.... Man utd have made contact with Young and are close to buying him for 13m. We were interested but Man utd are the only club to make official contact.

Is this referring to the end of the season?

There's a recent article in the Transfer Speculation thread which quotes Houllier as saying nothing will happen with Young before then.

(Could be a bluff of course to raise his price).

[Arn]

It's a stupid question.

Owen, Mach, Alonso, Rush, Gerrard... It's not a new thing or a phenomenon limited to now.

Another question; would a prospective manager look more favourably on a club that sacked it's previous manager after 6 months, or one that at least gave them a year to prove themselves?

I'm playing devils advocate a bit here because I would be delighted if Roy was sacked today, but I can see why it doesn't make sense for nesv and I don't think they should be lambasted for it.

The top class manager would most probably look at how ambitious the club is. Writing off a season show **** ambition. What would stop NESV doing the same again? The key is to show ambition all the time. Ambition to win all the time. Stop doing it one year and nothing really stops the argument that they will do it again if we start a season in a bad way. Then you can almost not sign any top class player and your best players will leave.

The top clubs shows ambition to get better all the time. They don't write a season off, never. It's small club thinking to write a season off.

We are Liverpool and we will never accept to write off a single game, even less a whole season.

[Kenneth]

The top class manager would most probably look at how ambitious the club is. Writing off a season show **** ambition. What would stop NESV doing the same again? The key is to show ambition all the time. Ambition to win all the time. Stop doing it one year and nothing really stops the argument that they will do it again if we start a season in a bad way. Then you can almost not sign any top class player and your best players will leave.

The top clubs shows ambition to get better all the time. They don't write a season off, never. It's small club thinking to write a season off.

We are Liverpool and we will never accept to write off a single game, even less a whole season.

Emotive language doesn't make your case any stronger. While many of us have written off the season, it's hardly an offical club position. We may not think we'll get fourth, but objectively we are still fighting for a PL place , a domestic cup and the Uefa cup.

Ambition for us means getting the right manage and backing him in the transfer market. I am not sure that a panic appointment, re-employing an old manager or bringing in a caretaker screams ambition. I expect nesv have, or are putting together a plan to make us competitive and it doesn't seem that changing manager at Christmas when they don't think there are better option available until the summer forms part of it. Much as I detest Roy, I can accept that.

[Craig_H]

The top class manager would most probably look at how ambitious the club is. Writing off a season show **** ambition. What would stop NESV doing the same again? The key is to show ambition all the time. Ambition to win all the time. Stop doing it one year and nothing really stops the argument that they will do it again if we start a season in a bad way. Then you can almost not sign any top class player and your best players will leave.

The top clubs shows ambition to get better all the time. They don't write a season off, never. It's small club thinking to write a season off.

We are Liverpool and we will never accept to write off a single game, even less a whole season.

I agree with your post - but the bit in bold - didnt Rafa do that at Reading, a few seasons back?

How did you feel about that?

[Neil Young]

I tend to agree with Kenneth on this. It's frustrating to have Hodgson around but, on balance, I don't think we can really blame NESV for keeping him here until they get someone else in.

It's the quality of who they get in that will determine whether or not it was the right decision to wait, not what happens to individual players in the meantime.