The Owners

[Craig_H]

You're jumping the gun a bit with your criticisms here Craig. It's not quite the time to judge just yet, although I admit it is getting closer.

One key point though in stark contrast to out previous "owners":
- At least everything is being done out of the public eye. There's been no leaks, no public fighting.

It's not my quote - but yes, i am critical of them. If it's not the time yet, then **** knows when is the time

[Craig_H]

Tomkins said he never tweeted that Purslow still has an influence on nesv.

Tomkins

@JP49er80 Nope, never said that. Unlikely they'd still be listening to CP after mess he caused.
22 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to JP49er80

That's what i thought too - they were apparently seriously pissed off with Purslow for sanctioning Carragher's new deal - so i'd be surprised if they listen to what he has to say.

[dww]

Dave, at which pint in the season have we had stability? What they have accepted is that this season is a complete write off. I think the best we can hope for now is midtable safety.

Depends what you mean by stability. What I mean is a consistent style with one man in charge. In terms of what we have seen on the pitch I think Roy has been very consistent. I just think he has also been crap. Also Roy hasn't rocked the boat in terms of fighting for things from the owners who are presumably gradually working out how they want the club to run.

I agree with Neil that one possibility is that so long as we stay in the PL this season and they can overhaul the club top to bottom in the summer NESV might be happy.

I also agree though that assuming anything at this stage is largely projection of our own feelings/hopes/fears onto a blank canvas.

[Craig_H]

We aren't privy to how it would go down. It could be explosive.

I like Rafa as a manager almost as much you do but he comes with a serious potential downside.

Thing is though Neil, under Bodger, we know where we are heading. He isnt a 'potential' problem, or a 'risk' - he is a guaranteed failure.

Rafa has a potential downside, and is a risk - like any manager. But he MIGHT be ****ing awesome too. We know Hodgson wont be. Rafa's a risk, but so is anyone. Do you continue walking towards the pit of ****, or do you take a 'risk' that *might* pay off? Because we know keeping Hodgson wont pay off.

If i am in a burning room, i'm not going to stay in it because the other door i might walk through *might* lead to a dead end. I'm going to at least TRY to escape, because sitting still is going to kill me.

[Craig_H]

Agree with everything Neil has said on this topic. It's totally harsh. They should not be judged until September 1st.

We'll probably be a point outside the playoff places by then.

[Molby]

Thing is though Neil, under Bodger, we know where we are heading. He isnt a 'potential' problem, or a 'risk' - he is a guaranteed failure.

Rafa has a potential downside, and is a risk - like any manager. But he MIGHT be ****ing awesome too. We know Hodgson wont be. Rafa's a risk, but so is anyone. Do you continue walking towards the pit of ****, or do you take a 'risk' that *might* pay off? Because we know keeping Hodgson wont pay off.

If i am in a burning room, i'm not going to stay in it because the other door i might walk through *might* lead to a dead end. I'm going to at least TRY to escape, because sitting still is going to kill me.

Totally agree.

There's a saying - You have to buy a ticket to win the Lottery.

[Neil Young]

Thing is though Neil, under Bodger, we know where we are heading. He isnt a 'potential' problem, or a 'risk' - he is a guaranteed failure.

Rafa has a potential downside, and is a risk - like any manager. But he MIGHT be ****ing awesome too. We know Hodgson wont be. Rafa's a risk, but so is anyone. Do you continue walking towards the pit of ****, or do you take a 'risk' that *might* pay off? Because we know keeping Hodgson wont pay off.

If i am in a burning room, i'm not going to stay in it because the other door i might walk through *might* lead to a dead end. I'm going to at least TRY to escape, because sitting still is going to kill me.

Which analogy would you prefer me to use - the pit of **** or the burning room?

Let's use the latter. The issue is whether or not the room is on fire. Last night's result says it might be. If we thought he was very likely to get us to mid-table at the end of the season then I'd argue the room isn't on fire. In other words, mid-table mediocrity might be the price we pay for getting in someone better long term.

Now he seems to be leading us towards a relegation battle then the risks of replacing him are smaller than the risks of not doing so.

So, after yesterday, I think he should go. More important, I think he will.

But the point of this thread is that I don't think the owners have anything than the club's best interests at heart, whatever decision they come to regarding Hodgson, as long as they don't keep him here beyond the summer.

[The_weatherman]

Thing is though Neil, under Bodger, we know where we are heading. He isnt a 'potential' problem, or a 'risk' - he is a guaranteed failure.

That's the thing, this is only going to end in tears, after the first few games many of us have been calling for his head and the only change has been in numbers calling for his head. We are not even guaranteed mid table under him FFS, we have to get rid before more damage is caused, IMO that is the most important thing, I'd consider almost anyone, Thompson, Dalglish (if asked formally I think he'd reconsider), hell even Alex our former coach, we just need someone to set the team up with a bit of ambition and take us through the season - and who is not Roy.

[Neil Young]

That's the thing, this is only going to end in tears, after the first few games many of us have been calling for his head and the only change has been in numbers calling for his head. We are not even guaranteed mid table under him FFS, we have to get rid before more damage is caused, IMO that is the most important thing, I'd consider almost anyone, Thompson, Dalglish (if asked formally I think he'd reconsider), hell even Alex our former coach, we just need someone to set the team up with a bit of ambition and take us through the season - and who is not Roy.

No, sorry, I'm not having that.

There's hardly been anyone on here who doesn't want him got rid of and I was one of those (many) who said it from the off.

The question is when he goes.

No-one suggested he was going to be as bad as he has been. No-one. Find me one post where someone predicted we'd be this low down the table halfway through the season. A single post, that's all I ask.

[Craig_H]

No, sorry, I'm not having that.

There's hardly been anyone on here who doesn't want him got rid of and I was one of those (many) who said it from the off.

The question is when he goes.

No-one suggested he was going to be as bad as he has been. No-one. Find me one post where someone predicted we'd be this low down the table halfway through the season. A single post, that's all I ask.

Never mind that now Neil, the point is we now know what he's all about and he must go NOW.

[The_weatherman]

No, sorry, I'm not having that.

There's hardly been anyone on here who doesn't want him got rid of and I was one of those (many) who said it from the off.

The question is when he goes.

No-one suggested he was going to be as bad as he has been. No-one. Find me one post where someone predicted we'd be this low down the table halfway through the season. A single post, that's all I ask.

Obviously no one thought so in the summer, hence I said after the first few games, but after the first few games the calls for his head have been growing, and it's apparent to me that he will not turn things around, no chance IMO.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=70644

I think you'll find some posts in this thread.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=70866

And this one.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=71085

And this poll early october gives an indication.

[Baracus]

[Neil Young]

Obviously no one thought so in the summer, hence I said after the first few games, but after the first few games the calls for his head have been growing, and it's apparent to me that he will not turn things around, no chance IMO.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=70644

I think you'll find some posts in this thread.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=70866

And this one.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=71085

And this poll early october gives an indication.

Oh dear, maybe I didn't make my point clearly enough.

Lots of people thought before we'd played a single game that he wasn't good enough and they didn't want him. I know this for a fact - I was one of them. No-one seriously thought until very, very recently that we were really potential relegation candidates. What we did think is he's still there, it's bad and we're going nowhere.

This is why I said it's about timing. At this point (and for some time now), if we're just going to write off the season and get someone good in in the summer then I could live with that easily. Obviously if we're in danger of being relegated then there's a much stronger case for taking a risk on getting in someone else now, even if they aren't the preferred long term solution. After last night the balance is much more in favour of the latter view than it was but it's still not clear-cut to me.

So just because lots of people have finally come round to the view he's never going to be good enough, it doesn't automatically mean anything other than they have finally seen what's been obvious from the start.

The only reason for sacking Hodgson now is if we're in real danger of relegation. The next game or two will make that absolutely clear.

I hope that's clear.

[badpiggy]

Oh dear, maybe I didn't make my point clearly enough.

Lots of people thought before we'd played a single game that he wasn't good enough and they didn't want him. I know this for a fact - I was one of them. No-one seriously thought until very, very recently that we were really potential relegation candidates. What we did think is he's still there, it's bad and we're going nowhere.

This is why I said it's about timing. At this point (and for some time now), if we're just going to write off the season and get someone good in in the summer then I could live with that easily. Obviously if we're in danger of being relegated then there's a much stronger case for taking a risk on getting in someone else now, even if they aren't the preferred long term solution. After last night the balance is much more in favour of the latter view than it was but it's still not clear-cut to me.

So just because lots of people have finally come round to the view he's never going to be good enough, it doesn't automatically mean anything other than they have finally seen what's been obvious from the start.

The only reason for sacking Hodgson now is if we're in real danger of relegation. The next game or two will make that absolutely clear.
I hope that's clear.

Maybe not knowing whether or not you're in danger of relegation by Christmas is an indication you're in danger of relegation?

We're in uncharted territory here for almost 100% of fans that's for sure.

[Neil Young]

Yeah, that's a perfectly reasonable point of view. I'm merely saying a couple of results now would suggest we'll be okay so the balance of arguments in favour of kicking out the caretaker or sticking with him until the summer changes again.

But the fact it's such a marginal call is certainly a concern in itself.