Pepe - The true Liverpool Spirit

[sean_lfc]

I dont/didnt mean to get personal with arn. I just genuinely think he has a serious issue with Gerrard, which doesnt strike me as normal for a regular football fan. His attacks on Gerrard are unproportionately vicious, in comparison to the so called 'crimes' Gerrard has committed. Makes no sense.

And equally so, arn is perfectly capable of saying 'agree to disagree' as well. I dont see you telling him though. Funny that.

I don't think they're disproportionately vicious to be fair, I think he genuinely believes that there is an issue with Gerrard, such as the topic/thread by other posters on here a few bars down confirms. I believe Rafa also saw an issue with Gerrard, which is why he was never quite sure what the best position for Gerrard would be - and in light of the fact, Rafa doesn't and has never built a team around superstars. Which, I would conclude, could have something to do with the fact Gerrard had been toying with a move to Chelsea. I think it's not a feat that should be swept under the table - regardless of the reasons for it. And it was played out in public - as you alluded to Reina's potential toying with a move elsewhere, which was never played out in public, if he so did.

And the reason I have come to the 'defense' of Arn is because I've known him for years on various boards and because, regardless of the fact he does have his own fantasies - and we all do - I know for a fact he knows quite a lot about European and Intercontinental football, and I like that. Whatever his opinions, I respect that he has a genuine interest in sport and I think he gets a lot of stick for his passion from all corners and it's easy to pick on him.

I used to be like you in the Library you know, got all personal, couldn't believe others might have a different opinion to mine, and stepping away from it helped me become a more humble person and respecting others' opinions.

[SimonNo7]

Oh and Pepe is a legend and if, and I think it is a big if, he suddenly came out at the end of the season and said he did want to leave I wouldn't think any less of him. He's a legend because of what he's done over the last five and a half years for our football club, in the way he plays and the way he has conducted himself.

[sean_lfc]

Oh and Pepe is a legend and if, and I think it is a big if, he suddenly came out at the end of the season and said he did want to leave I wouldn't think any less of him. He's a legend because of what he's done over the last five and a half years for our football club, in the way he plays and the way he has conducted himself.

Couldn't agree more, pal, great player and a great man and I love his laugh and his antics!

[Qantaga]

Oh and Pepe is a legend and if, and I think it is a big if, he suddenly came out at the end of the season and said he did want to leave I wouldn't think any less of him. He's a legend because of what he's done over the last five and a half years for our football club, in the way he plays and the way he has conducted himself.

Great player, great attitude

[Craig_H]

I don't think they're disproportionately vicious to be fair, I think he genuinely believes that there is an issue with Gerrard, such as the topic/thread by other posters on here a few bars down confirms. I believe Rafa also saw an issue with Gerrard, which is why he was never quite sure what the best position for Gerrard would be - and in light of the fact, Rafa doesn't and has never built a team around superstars. Which, I would conclude, could have something to do with the fact Gerrard had been toying with a move to Chelsea. I think it's not a feat that should be swept under the table - regardless of the reasons for it. And it was played out in public - as you alluded to Reina's potential toying with a move elsewhere, which was never played out in public, if he so did.

And the reason I have come to the 'defense' of Arn is because I've known him for years on various boards and because, regardless of the fact he does have his own fantasies - and we all do - I know for a fact he knows quite a lot about European and Intercontinental football, and I like that. Whatever his opinions, I respect that he has a genuine interest in sport and I think he gets a lot of stick for his passion from all corners and it's easy to pick on him.

I used to be like you in the Library you know, got all personal, couldn't believe others might have a different opinion to mine, and stepping away from it helped me become a more humble person and respecting others' opinions.

Number 1 - i have no issue with Arn, i like the fella and also like his presence and contributions here. My comments arent designed or intended to be personal and i think the vast majority would recognise that. It's just a 'style' of posting, with no ill intent whatsoever. Interesting that you mentioned Arn's passion. Perhaps wise to remember that it's not exclusive to him. The theory that i 'cant believe others have a different opinion to mine' sounds incredibly far-fetched to me. If you genuinely think that's true, then we're on vastly different wavelengths, and you dont know me at all. But that's not a problem.

Number 2 re Gerrard - and in response to your comments. Yes, he had the Chelsea thing and yes, it was rung out in public. It staggeringly baffles me how people have this passionate desire to continue to hang him out to dry, over 5 years later. He made a mistake, like we all do, and has spent over a decade dragging the team out of **** situations, single-handedly.

If Steven Gerrard doesnt deserve forgiveness for a mistake he made as a young man, back in 2005 and instead deserves vicious attacks and vitriol to the point where we can never ever ever accept what happened and then let it lie - well then i think we may as well remove the concept of forgiveness altogether.

[DannyMan2006]

In fairness, having seen how history has panned out, Gerrard would have been well within his right to leave after Istanbul. Because we've only won the FA Cup since then. And we've been involved in one title challenge since then as well.

We're lucky that world class players like Gerrard, Reina and Torres continue to trust that the club will get things right. Let's hope their trust is correctly placed this time round.

[Arn]

In fairness, having seen how history has panned out, Gerrard would have been well within his right to leave after Istanbul. Because we've only won the FA Cup since then. And we've been involved in one title challenge since then as well.

We're lucky that world class players like Gerrard, Reina and Torres continue to trust that the club will get things right. Let's hope their trust is correctly placed this time round.

I'm actuallly surprised that he has stayed. I mean he gave away the best years of his career to owners like Moores, Gillett and Hicks. We of course paid him a fortune and all that but he could have earned bigger money at another club.

The best move for him would have been to move on in January 2009 when it was very clear what would happen with Gillett and Hicks as owners. He decided to stay and hope that the club would be sold IMO.

I think that he decided that enough is enough before this season and didn't believe that the club would be sold and that is reason to why he IMO was prepared to move on if the right club made an offer and that is the reason to why he decided not to say anything before the World Cup. Leave his options open and not close any door.

Our owners had simply let him down.

[Craig_H]

If that's true arn, and it could well be, sounds reasonable - why hold that against him though? If he didnt commit to the club because he wanted to see what might happen with the ownership, that's not especially out of order on his part is it?

[DannyMan2006]

Maybe Arn holds the opinion that a player has to be totally committed?

I think Gerrard is btw, whatever his thoughts in the summer.

[Craig_H]

I think he is too. But he wouldnt have been human if he hadnt thought that he wanted to see where the club would be going, re the ownership.

[RedSince1964]

I'm actuallly surprised that he has stayed. I mean he gave away the best years of his career to owners like Moores, Gillett and Hicks. We of course paid him a fortune and all that but he could have earned bigger money at another club.

The best move for him would have been to move on in January 2009 when it was very clear what would happen with Gillett and Hicks as owners. He decided to stay and hope that the club would be sold IMO.

I think that he decided that enough is enough before this season and didn't believe that the club would be sold and that is reason to why he IMO was prepared to move on if the right club made an offer and that is the reason to why he decided not to say anything before the World Cup. Leave his options open and not close any door.

Our owners had simply let him down.

Well said Arn, it actually makes a lot of sence too

[Arn]

If that's true arn, and it could well be, sounds reasonable - why hold that against him though? If he didnt commit to the club because he wanted to see what might happen with the ownership, that's not especially out of order on his part is it?

I don't hold it against him if he wanted to leave. What I hold against him is that he let the club, his team mates and us fans down last season when he sulked in a lot of games. That is simply not on. He showed piss poor leadership qualities and he is our Captain. I wonder what his team mates thought when they saw how our Captain acted on the pitch? They must have wondered what the hell is going on?

No one know what happened when it comes down to Rafa and all that so I don't hold that against him.

Reina is this season showing Gerrard what a real leader do when it rains and the sun don't shine. He is coming out fighting. He is telling everyone how great this club is and all that.

Gerrard should be in the media a lot more telling everyone that we will never give up and that we still are a great club. He should come out fighting a lot more. He is our Captain FFS. It is time that he shows it.

It is easy to be a Captain when you win. It's when you lose that you discover how great Captain a player is.

Gerrard can learn a lot from Reina, a lot.

[Craig_H]

I've often said i'd like Gerrard to be a more vocal leader, but that just isnt him. He's more quiet than that and you could make a case for saying a quiet character isnt ideal to be skipper. But i suppose he leads by example on the pitch. Regarding last season, i think many sulked and Gerrard did too, which i'm certainly not saying is alright, but at the same time, he is still human and no human is perfect and without fault or mistake. I think that all the positive things he has done for us entitle him some forgiveness for the mistakes.

[Arn]

I've often said i'd like Gerrard to be a more vocal leader, but that just isnt him. He's more quiet than that and you could make a case for saying a quiet character isnt ideal to be skipper. But i suppose he leads by example on the pitch. Regarding last season, i think many sulked and Gerrard did too, which i'm certainly not saying is alright, but at the same time, he is still human and no human is perfect and without fault or mistake. I think that all the positive things he has done for us entitle him some forgiveness for the mistakes.

I just think that as a Captain you have much more responsibility and that means that you're not allowed to even think about sulking. He must be the player that comes out fighting all the time. He must act as a leader all the time.

That is his responsibility.

If another player sulks then it is bad but when you as the Captain do it then it is a lot worse. That sends out the signal that it is ok to sulk.

[Craig_H]

I do understand that and i agree. But it's not an ideal world and we're dealing with people arent we? If they were robots, then it'd be fine But when emotions are involved, it's hard. I'm not saying Gerrard wasnt wrong to sulk, of course he was. But considering everything he's given us over the years, it's something i am easily prepared to forgive.