West Ham post-match

[Lecter]

and Gerrard sulked the whole of last season and a big part of this one.......

Start to show with actions on the pitch that you are committed. That would help. Right now he is Mr sulk on the pitch. He could be Mr Fantastic if he changed his attitude.

Again this misses the point that 90% of the squad sulked under Roy and at least 50% or more sulked under Rafa last season

You cant judge Gerrard under Kenny hes played so few games

That was his 5th game under Kenny out of a potential 11

One of them he was sent off in and I actually thought he started ok in that game, I also thought he played well against Chelsea

Yesterday he was crap but so was Lucas, Meireles, Cole, Kuyt etc....

All of them showed little or no desire yesterday in fact its hard to say who actually did look up for it because I'd ****ing struggle to pick one man who showed for the full 90 minutes yesterday

[Exiled_red]

Something like this

----------------Reina---------
Kelly----Carragher ---- Agger-----Leftback
-------Holding player--------
----------------------Playmaker-----
----------------Gerrard--------------
----Suarez-------------------Attacking left player
--------------Carroll-----------------------------

Certainly on the right lines, I'm not sure if we need an attacking left or right sided player, I guess that depends on what Suarez best role is, ideally someone who could play either side and provide width when required.

I also think we need a centre back.

[Exiled_red]

In light of all the negativity about the performance watching MOTD2 last night, I thought Suarez was fantastic when he got the ball. He had 3 great moves in the second half, one of which resulted in the goal.

I think he was left down badly by the midfield, who didn't get the ball to him enough. Totally looks like a match winner.

[Nick77]

I just wish West Ham would play like that against the Scum, Spurs & Chavski - but I have a feeling they saved their best performance of the season for us like a lot of the smaller clubs do - does my ****en head in sometimes ffs!! I don't think we played that badly, ok we weren't great but West Ham really turned in their performance of the season so far imo...

[Darkon]

I just wish West Ham would play like that against the Scum, Spurs & Chavski - but I have a feeling they saved their best performance of the season for us like a lot of the smaller clubs do - does my ****en head in sometimes ffs!! I don't think we played that badly, ok we weren't great but West Ham really turned in their performance of the season so far imo...

I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that the lower placed club's really see a potential victory against us compared to the other top teams. We are in a slump, not playing to well and they taste blood when facing us.

[Maxiedge]

Something like this

----------------Reina---------
Kelly----Carragher ---- Agger-----Leftback
-------Holding player--------
----------------------Playmaker-----
----------------Gerrard--------------
----Suarez-------------------Attacking left player
--------------Carroll-----------------------------

That's pretty similar to the team I posted earlier in the thread but a couple of differences. I had Johnson at left back as he's been part of the good defensive record lately. Yeah, it's not ideal but it's good enough IMO for the standard we're looking to reach for now as hes a very capable footballer who will only improve defensively under Clarke.

I also put Meireles in there as I think he's upto standard as he can bloody put his chances away which is like gold-dust these days. However, I can see from your formation that it would not work having Gerrard and Mereiles in the same side. So lets say Mereiles on the bench and it's very likely he'll get his fair share of games with Gerrards injury record.

For the holding player role I've always been a big fan of Lassana Diarra so how about this team realistically:

----------------Reina---------
Kelly----Carragher ---- Agger-----Johnson
---------------Diarra-------------------
----------------------Adams-----
----------------Gerrard--------------
----Suarez-------------------Young
--------------Carroll-----------------------------


Looks pretty good to me.

[McDermotX]

I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that the lower placed club's really see a potential victory against us compared to the other top teams. We are in a slump, not playing to well and they taste blood when facing us.

That's a huge part of it.....................we're so timid, been happening all season more or less

[Lecter]

That's a huge part of it.....................we're so timid, been happening all season more or less

I was always concerned Roy's passive tactics would become ingrained

Kenny looked like he had gotten this out of the road but its been back in force the last few games

Whether that is through injuries / tiredness / lack of fitness of general mindset its hard to say

I'm tempted to think its one of the former at least I'd hope so

[RichC]

and it isn't Stevie if you look at how he played the last 20 months.

If Gerrard had performed like he did before that then it wouldn't be a contest. Gerrard would win by a mile.

If you look at how they played this season then Gerrard is the one that should be benched.

What has Gerrard done that earns him a place in the starting XI? Right now Gerrard is nothing else than a passenger and that is his own fault.

If he at least worked his socks off and looked like he cared then you could at least hope that he will start to perform. Not even having KK as the manager can make Gerrard work his socks off these days. Someone should spank his arse and tell him to start work his socks off and start to care.

Can anyone really say that it looks like Gerrard want to play for us and I mean really want to play for us?

I would say that it looks like he just want to **** off and leave. He simply can't put his heart in it anymore.

Arn - you really do need to get past this Carra and Gerrard prejudice you seem to bear against them, obviously down to whatever hand they may or may not had in Rafa leaving us.

Gerrard has stated now several times he doesn't want to leave Anfield and see's himself finishing his career with us, that if nothing else tells us he wants to play for us, and I mean really wanting to play for us.

Last season we were ****, that was down to the board room, players and the manager getting things wrong all are to blame and then on top of this the first 6 months of the season.

We then had the Bodge where nobody did well now did they, Stevie has now moved into the CM position because he's probably been asked to play there, he's best behind the striker we know that as does he and then on top of that he's carrying an injury - rather than not standing up to be counted perhaps he told Kenny he'd play due to the serious lack of options available there, even when fully fit?

So there are two sides to look at things, you always go for the negative with him and Carra!

[The Birdman]

I thought we were poor, one of those games where nothing went right for us. We looked tired, leggy and just generally off the pace while West Ham had a free week looked fresh and up for it.
To me Gerrard eased his way through the game as if he didn't trust his injury which is ok as I'd rather a 50% Gerrard than a 100% Spearing or Poulson.

We missed Agger but again I'm delighted Wilson got a run instead of Kyriakos, Wilson was ok, struggled at times but he is only going to improve by playing.
Johnson was our best player for me and posters on here slate him for no reason just like they did with Lucas last season.

Overall we looked like a tired team with a lack of quality in the squad so when Kelly and Meireles went off we got worse.

Carragher is finished in a back 4 in my honest opinion, shouting and bawling at everyone else only kids the uneducated but he is still more than useful in the back 3.

Suarez will be top top quality once he has settled in with the PL and the rest of the team, looked a real livewire at times although we struggled to get him on the ball often enough.

I'll take another 7 or 8 games before our next defeat

[barnes10]

one thing that occurred to me when kenny had just taken over is the lack of fitness work roy does compared to rafa. That roy wasted the pre-season and there's only so much kenny can do from when he took over.

[Fernandinho]

How do you know that?

[PTP]

That's pretty similar to the team I posted earlier in the thread but a couple of differences. I had Johnson at left back as he's been part of the good defensive record lately. Yeah, it's not ideal but it's good enough IMO for the standard we're looking to reach for now as hes a very capable footballer who will only improve defensively under Clarke.

I also put Meireles in there as I think he's upto standard as he can bloody put his chances away which is like gold-dust these days. However, I can see from your formation that it would not work having Gerrard and Mereiles in the same side. So lets say Mereiles on the bench and it's very likely he'll get his fair share of games with Gerrards injury record.

For the holding player role I've always been a big fan of Lassana Diarra so how about this team realistically:

----------------Reina---------
Kelly----Carragher ---- Agger-----Johnson
---------------Diarra-------------------
----------------------Adams-----
----------------Gerrard--------------
----Suarez-------------------Young
--------------Carroll-----------------------------


Looks pretty good to me.

i'd have a first choice left back first

Johnson and Kelly to fight for right back

first choice left back with either aurelio or insua back from loan as cover

[Lecter]

How do you know that?

Must admit I've heard similar myself

Its logical you dont have to be that fit if your tactics are sit deep, dont press, dont pass and move and just **** the ball front to back when it comes to you

A high tempo pressing tactic integrated with pass and move when in possession demands much higher fitness levels

[McDermotX]

I was always concerned Roy's passive tactics would become ingrained

Kenny looked like he had gotten this out of the road but its been back in force the last few games

Whether that is through injuries / tiredness / lack of fitness of general mindset its hard to say

I'm tempted to think its one of the former at least I'd hope so

Don't believe its just the tactics alright, and whatever damage Roy has done..............we're carrying an awful of lot of players who are just making up the numbers these days. Not sure the hunger or honesty of effort is there anymore.
It was there during Rafa's final season with a number of individals, there at the start of the season, and its there under Kenny despite the turnaround of results. We're lazy, slow and predictable to almost statuesque proportions, and I don't believe Kenny would be able to turn it around without a significant cull on the playing staff.........too many passengers, too many people comfortable in their position in the team/squad, too much money going out the door every week on people not fit to wear the shirt etc etc
People always say success breeds success....I'm a firm believer that mediocrity breeds complacency. The character is just not there.

Our squad hit it heights 2 year back........whatever Rafa done with us that year is gone, and its not coming back with whats left there now.