West Ham post-match

[PaddyPool]

The Club isn't going to move forward while he's there bolstering his appearance figures. His running-through-treacle act is a total embarrassment.

Like the rest of us here I idolise Jamie . Running through treacle
is on the money . Kills me to say this - is this season a season
too long for our Legend ? . Rather see the man bow out than be
made to look ****e by kids zipping by him or tackles that would"nt
look out of place in the Six Nations .

[Lecter]

Lucas DOES give away silly free kicks, but I think we notice it more with him. And in the position he plays, it's hard for him not to give the odd one away.

Its the position he gives them in though

Often he needs to just stand and jockey or shadow the player, the other times hes caught the wrongside due to his own inept positional play

However in the real world the stats show that Lucas is an exceptional tackler

[Mostar]

No its not a stupid argument

Its stupid to ignore an obvious flaw

Often he doesnt have to give away those fouls but he does so because hes either out of position or making a poor decision (diving in when he should just stand his ground)

I dont particularly feel the need to slate Lucas at every opportunity he should be playing because we just dont have anyone else good enough but long term we need someone far better than him and less of a liability

Mascherano might have given away more fouls but CRUCIALLY not in the dangerous positions Lucas frequently gives them away in

What Mascherano lacked in positional sense he made up for in pace

Lucas doesnt have enough of either

[Rowan]

Ever considered it is just your perception, because the stats DON'T back you up.

**** the stats, Matt. They don't tell a story at all. Numbers without context are just meaningless.

Football is all about situations, each one varying. The stats don't show those and are therefore pointless.

[Lecter]

Stats are bollocks mate, they rarely back many things up. They don't prove much in football.

Apparently the stats show Skrtel is our best defensive centrehalf we had available today

Wonder how those same stats would explain the third goal - probably Carraghers fault

[danperkins]

Who gives a **** if it is not just you, it is still bull**** and still a myth.

No it is plain ignorance born out of preconception.

well either that or its born out of watching him play.

Matt in blowing things massively out of proportion, and going completely on the defensive for no apparent reason SHOCKER!

[DannyMan2006]

Dont think it was Grant tactically getting one over on Kenny, just think it was that the West Ham midfield dominatated ours and if you look at the state of our squad/bench Kenny couldnt have done much about it.

Bringing on Poulsen, Maxi or Cole would not have offered anymore into the area we were losing

First half we had Lucas, Gerrard and Meireles who we could have played central and backed it up with wide players such as Kuyt and maxi/Cole of the bench.

Second half after the Raul injury and it's up for debate but it's two nil at that stage and I guess to go with 5 in midfield at that stage would be as much a gamble as 4.

[mellor]

I stand by that. Slovakian ones aren't either.

Well I agree with that.

[wiw]

I'm with Matt actually, I think it's a myth

At first he was guilty of it, but not so much recently

[Lecter]

Starting with 5 defenders on the pitch is not the way to go, especially if one of those defenders is Carragher - who was ****ing woeful again today - had a hand in all three of their goals, should have had a penalty against him, continually cleared the ball to their players to give them another go that twice nearly resulted in a goal, and was out on his feet after 70 mins and let players just waltz down the side of him. And we've got another two and a half years of this ****e. ****ing hell.

I dont think you could blame Carragher for any goal

First one was just one of those things it was a cracking piece of work from Parker

Second one was Wilsons fault he shouldnt have gone for that header (should have left it for Carragher) once he moved out it left a gap on our leftside which they exploited

Final goal was Skrtls fault he got bullied and then Reina shouldnt get beaten at the near post

[DannyMan2006]

FWIW I don't blame Kenny for going 352. What I think is that when it is clearly not working he should be making a change. It took an injury to change things and then crazily he went 442 instead of 451/4141. That was the death knell for us IMO.

[Mattshark]

9 fk's in dangerous positions last season given away by Lucas, that is not frequent.

[Arn]

The problem is that we build the tactics around Gerrard and when he don't deliver it end up like this and you can't take him off can you? The manager that do that would be slaughtered.

If we want to move forward then we must sell Gerrard. I have said that for months and I still stand by that.

We must be able to build our tactics around the whole team and not something that suits Gerrard and what he want.

[DannyMan2006]

Controversial........

When was the last time Reina made a worthwhile save? It seems every week he saves what he should do, but when it comes to pulling one out the bag it goes in the net. I guess a better judge than me could just say he has good positional sense and the ones that go in are not saveable.

Thoughts???

[Mattshark]

Stats are bollocks mate, they rarely back many things up. They don't prove much in football. But what you see does count and that's fair enough.

That is utter rubbish mate, this is where free kicks are concede, ignoring stats for that is utterly insane.

Why do you think stats are accepted in science and witnesses aren't btw?