West Ham post-match

[Mattshark]

No we didnt play two holding players last season

There is a difference between being a holding player and a defensive midfielder

Mascherano, Hamann are holding players they sit in front of the back four

Alonso was not a holding player he played further forward the same role Lucas fulfilled for us last season

There is a difference between a defensive midfielder and a holding player

So for a player playing further forward he gave away more freekicks in dangerous positions than our actual out and out holding player

Now who is the ignorant one

Still you Facts went against your argument and so you try to change it, so I can't be arsed with you any more.

[SK]

Slovenian defenders are not the way forward

Neither is Joe Cole. Sell, sell, sell!

I stand by that. Slovakian ones aren't either.

Oh I don't know, Šuler is good, albeit could do with a bit more pace. Cesar is a reliable beast, but i'll give you that Anđelković is a tad overrated..

[GorbyPeacePrize]

No but I think you have to look at the root cause of the goals

Carragher wasnt to blame for the 2nd and 3rd

Maybe the first you could argue yes

Skrtl was at fault for the 3rd hes a ****ing wimp

Second one Wilson shouldnt have gone for that thats basic fundamental defending he got drawn out

There was still a lot to do for the 3rd and second goals after the initial mistake; it wasn't as if the attacker had an easy path to goal, or at least shouldn't have had in the case of the third goal as Carragher had plenty of time to get across, yet got caught up in 4 feet of treacle.

[Lecter]

Still you Facts went against your argument and so you try to change it, so I can't be arsed with you any more.

No stats are bollocks sorry as I said earlier Arn presented stats the other day to show Skrtel was our best defensive centrehalf available

This isnt Championship Manager and thats what I suggest you continue playing if you want to talk stats all the time

Real football isnt like that

Mascherano was our holding player last year, Lucas played the Alonso role.

Anyway as Danny said last year is irrelevant (perhaps you should also call Danny ignorant)

This season Lucas is playing the holding role and is giving away freekicks in dangerous areas too frequently

[Neil Young]

I haven't read the thread so I'm sure these points have been made but what the heck...

1. We lacked composuse on the ball. Perhaps tiredness was a problem and obviously a lot of it was down to West Ham's workrate. But I felt before the first goal that we were missing Agger's ability to do something constructive with the ball and, without blaming him for what followed, a bad pass from Wilson led to the opening goal.
2. I think we shouldn't have changed the system until haf time. There was only a couple of minutes to play, Gerrard could have filled in at right back. I thought at the time it might be a mistake and would have witnesses to prove it if I hadn't been watching the game on my own so no one was there to hear my tactical insights. Would it have prevented the second? Who knows but inevitably it was disruptive and there was nothing to gain by changing at that point.
3. We deserved to lose.
4. Dalglish out.

I don't mean number 4.

[Mostar]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/feb/27/west-ham-united-liverpool

King Kenny is no messiah for Liverpool

The manager has given the team a needed boost, but big investment will be required for the team to compete at top level

Under the east London rain it was hard to believe that the last time Liverpool were in the capital they had their supporters dreaming of a return to the Champions League. It was Sunday, 6 February and the team had just beaten Chelsea 1-0 at Stamford Bridge. With Fernando Torres looking on from the home team's bench following his £50m move from Anfield there was a sense among the travelling Kopites that after a truly grim few months, the immediate future was golden bright. How quickly things change.

A 3-1 defeat to West Ham is some way to come crashing down to earth and that it should happen exactly 50 days after Kenny Dalglish resumed his role as the Liverpool manager was perhaps appropriate. For as well as the Scot has done since replacing Roy Hodgson on a temporary basis ahead of the club's 1-0 FA Cup defeat to Manchester United in early January, it is obvious the king is no messiah. There is no quick fix to the malaise that Liverpool continue to find themselves in.

After a run of eight matches without defeat this display was reminiscent of those staged away from home by Liverpool during Rafael Benítez's final season at the club and in the six months Hodgson was in charge. Liverpool, it should be remembered, collected just two away wins in the whole of 2010. The men in white and black lacked thrust and decisiveness at Upton Park and, having gone behind to Scott Parker's exquisite 22nd minute goal, became increasingly ragged. The defensive assurance they have shown since Dalglish's return also deserted them a minute before half-time, allowing Demba Ba to stroll into the area and, unmarked, head in Gary O'Neill's cross to double West Ham's lead.

There came a spirited response from Liverpool after the interval and with it a goal from the former West Ham full-back Glen Johnson following excellent work from Luiz Suárez. But it was soon followed by a goal from the substitute Carlton Cole, and Dalglish, looking on in an interchanging state of confusion and anger, had his third defeat since retuning to the club he calls home.

It will pain him that the other losses came against Manchester United (Liverpool's biggest rivals) and Blackpool, who, like West Ham, are the type of opponents the team he graced as a player were accustomed to overcoming with relative ease. But this is a very different Liverpool and were Dalglish to get the job on a long-term basis, it would require all his energies to get them back challenging for Premier and Champions League titles

This, after all, remains a relatively uncompetitive squad in which only Pepe Reina, Jamie Carragher, Martin Kelly, Raul Meireles, Steven Gerrard, Suárez and the yet-to-feature Andy Carroll can be recognised as strong assets. Some Liverpool supporters will demand Dirk Kuyt and Lucas Leiva are added to that list but, equally, they would not lose much sleep were either to be sold in the summer. Daniel Agger is another fan favourite but the Denmark defender could also leave with little fuss given his injury record.

Major investment from the club's latest American owners is required. That much was obvious here as a simple cranking-up of the pressure from West Ham caused Liverpool to fold yet again. These players, it appears, lack mental toughness as well as the quality of performance which has seeped out of Merseyside in successive seasons.

Those that have come in have, on the whole, disappointed, no one more so than Joe Cole, who was applauded onto the pitch by the West Ham supporters when he arrived as a 43rd-minute substitute for the injured Kelly and returned the favour by putting in another ineffective display. In fairness to the 29-year-old, his time at Liverpool has been blighted by injury, but a player the club took so much pleasure in capturing during the summer is struggling to match the hype and he too could be moved on before next season.

Whatever decisions Dalglish makes he will undoubtedly maintain the support of the fans. His name was again sung here with gusto and will be when United visit Anfield next Sunday. But as admirable as the backing for 'King Kenny' is it also, to some extent, camouflages the truth of Liverpool's current state. Yes, the win at Chelsea was impressive, but it did not suddenly propel a team that had been fighting relegation into genuine contenders for a top-four place, as was proved by their subsequent home draw with Wigan and this result. In between came the Europa League tie with Sparta Prague, which Liverpool came through but which hardly fuelled the belief that this is a club destined for May's final in Dublin.

What is for sure is that under Dalglish, Liverpool are playing with more invention than they showed under Hodgson. This game aside, the team is also defending better, due in part to the employment of Steve Clarke as a coach. That move also strengthens the belief that despite a decade away from management, Dalglish remains well in touch with the game.

But as this defeat proves, there remains much work to be done if the 59-year-old is to come anywhere close to replicating what he achieved in his first stint in charge at Anfield. Liverpool leave London with their Champions League dreams shattered and that familiar feeling of despair returning to the fold.

[cream]

Too many **** players on the pitch at the same time. We looked slow and lethargic, the way to play against is to play a pressing game, teams know that and It's going to be difficult to change that now.

[Mattshark]

Lec, unlike Arn, I understand stats, you clearly don't.

[JohnDoe]

We are the slowest team in the league, as well as one of the softest. We need quality, tough players. Anyone who thought this squad has more potential than it has shown, Wigan and today are your answers.

We are the 6th best team in the league.

[Lecter]

Lec, unlike Arn, I understand stats, you clearly don't.

Oh I fully understand them but dont put much relevance in them

However to humour you I have done the Guardian Chalkboards back to the Wolves away game (cant be bothered doing much more than that)

Lucas gave away the following in the final third

2 freekicks v West Ham
2 freekicks v Wigan
1 freekick V Chelsea
2 freekicks v Wolves

Now I clearly "dont understand stats" but thats only one less than he gave away last season (according to your stats)

[pondus]

Let's hope we have learned a lesson for next weekend, even if you are a **** team you have a chance if you put in an effort.

[Lecter]

We are the 6th best team in the league.

[Maxiedge]

These are the only players upto LFC standard:



..................reina...................
Kelly......carra....agger....johnson

......meireles.......gerrard.........

.......suarez.........carroll...........

So that's 2 players required. One has to be holding midfielder. The other a winger or forward.
Even though this is not taking into account injuries ( e.g. Agger missses many games), I think its good having a really strong first 11 just for the overall potential of the team and the belief this gives them.

With a really strong first 1X, I think you'll have higher probability of being able to field a side that has enough quality to cover any deficiencies there might be due to injuries or young players learning their trade.

From next season kuyt, lucas and skrtel should be on the bench but really what great options they are to bring on and it's more than likely they'll play a big part in the season as is required these days.

[Bender]

Really think the time has come to blood a few youngsters.....and i'd bet you now raheem sterling would make an immediate impact if given a chance .........we really lack speed/width and creativity.......said before our squad is really ****e

[Lecter]

Really think the time has come to blood a few youngsters.....and i'd bet you now raheem sterling would make an immediate impact if given a chance .........we really lack speed/width and creativity.......said before our squad is really ****e

I genuinely worry about throwing kids in

It really is sink or swim and the potential damage you can do to them far out ways the need

Personally I dont think hes ready but I'd be tempted to try Pacheco or Ince from the bench