Liverpool vs Man Utd Post Match gloating

[Pablo]

That image shows that it's just mistimed he goes in slightly over the ball.

[RichC]

quite a good article here - the bit about a team on the slide rings true and reminds me of us at the time after Kenny left, not replacing like for like in quality!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/8364988/Manchester-Uniteds-abject-surrender-at-Liverpool-reveals-a-deep-malaise.html

Manchester United's abject surrender at Liverpool reveals a deep malaise
Sir Alex Ferguson has endured some miserable results during his 950 league games in charge of Manchester United, but few will rival his team’s abject surrender at Anfield, either for pain or significance.
The United manager confessed to spending all weekend ‘under the duvet’ after his players were on the wrong end of a 5-1 hammering at Manchester City in 1989 and a 5-0 defeat at Newcastle seven years later, quickly immortalised in the form of a video named ‘Howay Five-O,’ will be in Ferguson’s top five horror shows.

They will join the 4-0 rout at Anfield in Sept 1990, when Peter Beardsley’s hat-trick ball was spitefully booted into the Kop by United goalkeeper Les Sealey at the final whistle, and the 2-0 collapse at the same ground in Apr 1992 which ended United’s title challenge and handed the championship to Leeds United.

When United slumped to that defeat in the 1991-92 season, the disappointment burned so deeply into the soul of Ferguson and his players that the motivation it generated propelled the team to a decade of domestic dominance.

Rather than imbue his squad with a steely resolve never to allow such pain to be suffered again, however, Sunday’s 3-1 loss to Kenny Dalglish’s team emitted a wholly different sense of time running out on this group of players.

This was not a United team on the rise, experiencing a setback which could provide the building block for future successes.

This was a group of players with more battles behind them than ahead and a team in dire need of an injection of charisma, exuberance and pace.

The previous dismal defeats were all shrugged off with the lifting of silverware, but although United are still just about in control of their destiny in terms of claiming a record 19th title this season, Ferguson cannot rely on this same group of players to deliver beyond the end of this campaign.

Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes are guaranteed lifelong membership of United’s platinum club, but at 37 and 36 respectively, the sands of time have reduced to final few grains.

Wes Brown, a player who has made a career out of being a dependable back-up, now no longer ticks that box. This was his first start in the league since November and it showed as he missed the flight of balls, misjudged passes and replicated the turning cycle of the ocean liners that once sailed down the Mersey.

In midfield, Michael Carrick singularly failed to provide the legs or attacking verve required when deployed alongside Giggs and Scholes, while Nani reverted to his frustrating worst before being kicked out of the game by Jamie Carragher’s brutal first-half challenge.

And then there was Wayne Rooney. The 25-year-old, once billed as the ‘Golden Boy of English football’ by Sven Goran Eriksson offered little once again.

Scholes twice berated Rooney in the second-half as the heavy touch and sloppy passes that have helped define his season gifted possession to Liverpool and ended promising attacking forays.

In mitigation, United can point to a host of injuries to key men for the recent slump that has now seen them lose three league games in the space of a month.

Rio Ferdinand has missed all three of those defeats with the two-week calf injury that has now kept him sidelined for five. Without the 32-year-old, United lack authority and presence at the back and, when Nemanja Vidic is also unavailable — suspension ruled him out at Anfield — the opponents experience the same glee as a child on Christmas morning.

Ji-sung Park, Antonio Valencia, Michael Owen, Anderson and Jonny Evans are also unavailable, while Owen Hargreaves no longer even merits a mention.

But the options left for Ferguson are simply not of the same calibre of those in previous great teams.

Gabriel Obertan and Darron Gibson both sat on the bench at Anfield, but neither would come close to breaking into the 1999 Treble squad. The same could be said of Bebe.

Javier Hernandez, the £7m Mexican forward, has unquestionably been a stellar performer since arriving under the radar from Chivas de Guadalajara last summer and his injury-time goal underlined his Solskjaer-like ability to score from the bench.

But while Ferguson bemoaned the lack of value in the market last summer, Harry Redknapp somehow managed to sign Rafael van der Vaart for Tottenham for £8m.

How United lack a player of the Dutchman’s imagination and attacking intent.

Scholes once had it in bucketloads, but age has diminished his goalscoring qualities of the past.

Liverpool’s empire crumbled because ageing stalwarts were replaced by players who simply didn’t match up and the danger for United is that history might be repeating itself for them.

No wonder the Kop sang ‘Always Look on the Bright Side of Life’ at the final whistle.

[Neil Young]

Surely there doesn't have to be intent? Rafael flew through the air with both feet off the ground and had Lucas not jumped out the way he may have had a leg broken. A wild challenge.

And why was that cry baby cunt not sent off for man-handling the ref?

Yes, exactly, that's what I was saying, intent is not relevant.

I'm not defending Rafael's challenge but I think he'd have got red if he'd made serious contact.

Of course the fact that Dowd mistakenly didn't send off Carragher probably influenced him not to send off Rafael anyway.

I don't think we can complain about Rafael, or decisions in general. He was pretty even-handed.

[Exiled_red]

I know what you mean yet I think Carragher was more deserving of red because he did catch Rafael.

A qualified ref told me a few years ago that intent is now (or was then, it could have been changed again since) only relevant to handball decisions.

So basically that implies that you can go flying around the pitch crashing into tackles and as long as the other player jumps out of the way that's fine you get away with it, but if you mistime a tackle and injure someone that's more deserving of a red card.

But as I said before I don't think you can judge a tackle solely on how much damage it does.

[Neil Young]

No, I'm not saying that. Exaggerating what I'm saying to the point where it becomes nonsense isn't all that helpful.

I agree, I don't think you can judge a tackle solely by how much damage it does. And neither does Phil Dowd since he booked Rafael when he made little or no contact.

[PaddyPool]

Mate Im convinced COD Black ops was based on Carras autobiography LOL

Classic mate .

[Kenneth]

No, I'm not saying that. Exaggerating what I'm saying to the point where it becomes nonsense isn't all that helpful.

I agree, I don't think you can judge a tackle solely by how much damage it does. And neither does Phil Dowd since he booked Rafael when he made little or no contact.

That's little unfair. The bit in bold would imply precisely what exiled red said. So it's clearly not 100% true.

[Neil Young]

No it doesn't. You've completely misunderstood the point. It's a foul if contact is made on the player and not the ball (or player before ball even).

In that circumstance it doesn't matter whether the player was going for the ball or not.

Of course it can also be a foul if a player throws a punch and doesn't connect, goes in studs up and doesn't make contact, etc.

Is that clear?

[Exiled_red]

No, I'm not saying that. Exaggerating what I'm saying to the point where it becomes nonsense isn't all that helpful.

I'm just saying that I don't like the idea that if you have to take serious evasive action to avoid having your legs broken, the opponents fate depends on whether or not you successfully manage to get out of the way, and not the nature of the challeng itself. IMO if that is the case there is something wrong with the laws of the game.

I agree, I don't think you can judge a tackle solely by how much damage it does. And neither does Phil Dowd since he booked Rafael when he made little or no contact.

But Rafael didn't make contact with Lucas so if intent doesn't come into it why was he booked?

[Kenneth]

It is now.

[PaddyPool]

Yep - we were spoiled. I used to get jammed between the bars on the windows at the back of the Kop by my dad and uncles and told to hold on tight and not tell my mum. Subsequently grew up to spend many an afternoon/night bouncing round making myself hoarse - there's no feeling like it, and it's difficult to explain what it was like.

There was an LP released in the 60s - we'd just won the league and the bitters had won the FA Cup, I think. I think I've still got it - as far as I can remember its got loads of interviews and recordings of the craic.

I'm going to see if I can ferret it out - see if I can post it.

Bet there will be more than a little interest in that mate . I was born in "57 and first stood in Anfield - Paddocks- at about 13 years of age then on to the Kop a year later . Every single attitude I have re football AND one or two more I developed /learned on the Kop . "The Kop University" for further learning .

[paulc]

photo of nani's leg apparently http://www.redcafe.net/f6/nanis-inju...earted-322893/

[TheElephantMan]

United's position at the top of the table is amazing considering how **** they are. I hope Arsenal can seize the opportunity that's there. What a fabulous win for our boys today, great football from Suarez and Kuyt was superb too. Nani is a ****house, it was great to see Carragher make him cry.

[Leyton388]

photo of nani's leg apparently http://www.redcafe.net/f6/nanis-inju...earted-322893/

HAHAHAHA bunch of ****ing cunts. I've seen bigger paper cuts. The guy is a dickhead who has had this coming all season.

[RichC]

photo of nani's leg apparently http://www.redcafe.net/f6/nanis-inju...earted-322893/

the number of comments on that about the "boy that cried wolf" his reaction was ridiculous, chased after the ref, realised there was no red card and fell over like he'd been shot.

Boy should be very embarrassed by that as should most of his team mates