West Brom vs Liverpool: Match Thread

[Lecter]

That is simply rubbish. What they need is to play with better players. Even if they don't deliver then if they have the right mentality then they should take is as a step in the right direction.

Almost every great player through the history of football got a chance very very early and developed into great players thanks to that they played with better players and got the right mentality. Some of them didn't deliver straight away but they got playing time.

They didn't play almost anything for a reserve team. Playing for a reserve team more or less offers nothing when it comes down to progress if the player is very good.

Either you play them in the PL or loan them out. Great talents should simply never play for the reserve team if they don't need games on the way back from an injury.

Jesus you know absolutely **** all, you look at players playing for the youth team or reserves and you have this blinkered view that they will instantly be able to step up and perform to the same level in the Premier League

The fact is the gulf between reserve level and first team level is ****ing enormous Spearing looked a world beater at reserve level, so did John Welsh years back but the havent / were not able to perform to that level in the Premier eague

Going on your comment about not being in the reserves long before making it lets take Kelly as an instance he was an absolutely standout performer in the reserves for 18 months before getting a chance in the first team, he then went out on loan to Huddersfield for the remainder of last season

You have to be an astounding player to make the step up, you have to be an even better player to do it with a team that is underperforming/inconsistant. If you throw someone in the deeped and they get completely owned then that could knock them back years

Players like Suso, Flanagan et al have been training with the first team on occasions so the staff have seen whether they are capable of performing to the level required (being surrounded by and playing against better players) and yet you believe they are totally wrong in holding them back and that they should be thrown in

Kenny himself has said he wouldnt be surprised if Flanagan pushed through so they must think hes close, the fact he hasnt mentioned the others suggests they aint ready yet

And yet in your considered opinion they are ready and should be thrown in seriously have a ****ing word with yourself

[Rowan]

Many of us have already seen the true colours showed by Gerrard and Carragher. How biased they are in the interviews.

If Gerrard hadn't sulked last season then we would probably finished in the top four and then people defends him for what happened last season. It is really laughable.

No one know how many points we dropped last season because of the Gerrard sulking of course but it is a shame that you even can discuss a thing like that because it should never happen.

The absolute minimum you expect from a player in a game is that he will work his socks off and never sulk. That counts for every player in the squad.

Then you can accept if he play a bad game. Players do that, they are human, but when it comes down to sulking then it is the players own decision to do it. Then they are letting the club, the team mates and the supporters down.

Arn, that's not even a balanced argument. Wasn't he playing with an injury of some form or another in most games? To say he deliberately threw games is just nuts. It's a bat****, barmy mental argument. In fact it's not even an argument. It's a ridiculous and baseless accusation.

Honestly man. Have a word!

[Lecter]

So, how much will players like Sterling and Suso develop thanks to reserve team football compared to being loaned out or play with the first team?

I would say that they will develop almost nothing playing reserve team football. Very few games and not good enough teams in the reserve team league.

They are already past that level thanks to that they are very special talents.

The next step isn't reserve team football. It is either playing for the first team in the PL or loaned out to another club in the PL.

Sterling is ****ing 15 and about 3 stone, I'd suggest he needs a couple of years in the reserves before you should even consider loaning him out

Suso has just turned 18 - Gerrard never made his debut until he was 18, Kelly was 19 when he made his devut and Carragher was 20

As mentioned earlier Spearing was a stand out performer in the reserve league so it means nothing

We've brought Kelly, Wilson, Shelvey and Spearing into the squad this year - Flanagan might push through also

Suso & Coady will not push through this year and nor should we be looking to force them through just yet

Next season I'd expect those two (or 3 if Flanagan doesnt come through this season) to push through

Sterling wont get near the first team next season

Why you would think you know more about football than Dalglish, Sammy Lee, Steve Clarke, Pep Seguera and Borrell is quite staggerring, as I said previously McMahon was supposedly sacked as reserve team coach for holding similar views to you

[Lecter]

If Gerrard hadn't sulked last season then we would probably finished in the top four and then people defends him for what happened last season. It is really laughable.

Almost as laughable as someone suggesting throwing in a 3ft, 3 stone 15 year old into the first team

[RichC]

Almost as laughable as someone suggesting throwing in a 3ft, 3 stone 15 year old into the first team

young Arnold does have some very strange ideas doesn't he!

[Shaggy]

Arn man.

I have some sympathy as I didn't like Gerrard's attitude in that last season under Benitez, and he didn't play well. But he wasn't the only one, and while that doesn't exonerate him he can hardly be blamed entirely for us not finishing in the top 4.

[Mostar]

Jesus you know absolutely **** all, you look at players playing for the youth team or reserves and you have this blinkered view that they will instantly be able to step up and perform to the same level in the Premier League

The fact is the gulf between reserve level and first team level is ****ing enormous Spearing looked a world beater at reserve level, so did John Welsh years back but the havent / were not able to perform to that level in the Premier eague

Going on your comment about not being in the reserves long before making it lets take Kelly as an instance he was an absolutely standout performer in the reserves for 18 months before getting a chance in the first team, he then went out on loan to Huddersfield for the remainder of last season

You have to be an astounding player to make the step up, you have to be an even better player to do it with a team that is underperforming/inconsistant. If you throw someone in the deeped and they get completely owned then that could knock them back years

Players like Suso, Flanagan et al have been training with the first team on occasions so the staff have seen whether they are capable of performing to the level required (being surrounded by and playing against better players) and yet you believe they are totally wrong in holding them back and that they should be thrown in

Kenny himself has said he wouldnt be surprised if Flanagan pushed through so they must think hes close, the fact he hasnt mentioned the others suggests they aint ready yet

And yet in your considered opinion they are ready and should be thrown in seriously have a ****ing word with yourself

[SimonNo7]

I think 20m or so for Cahill is comical quite frankly and I don't put much faith in rumours. He has a reasonable season in a weak league, aside from that he is 25 and has not really done anything and is basically a huge premium for him being English.

N'zogbia would cost over 10 which is comical.

Baines is an average defender and has a decent set piece and would like cost more than 10m.

I think we can all agree that most footballers transfer fees are comical, I mean £35m for a striker who has played less than a season (I think) in the Premier League is comical but that is the price a team was willing to pay for him.

The thing about him having a reasonable season is what you can say about any player that gains some kind of prominence and no he hasn't really done anything as he plays for an unfancied team but he is playing well and as he is playing well he has been called up to the National team.The fact he is 25 doesn't really mean anything, if we signed him we could have at least 5 good seasons out of him.

But getting away from comical prices for overpriced English players you didn't actually answer the question, do you not agree that buying anyone of these three could actually result in buying a player who becomes quality in that they fit in with the rest of the players and create a team?

[Mattshark]

I think we can all agree that most footballers transfer fees are comical, I mean £35m for a striker who has played less than a season (I think) in the Premier League is comical but that is the price a team was willing to pay for him.

The thing about him having a reasonable season is what you can say about any player that gains some kind of prominence and no he hasn't really done anything as he plays for an unfancied team but he is playing well and as he is playing well he has been called up to the National team.The fact he is 25 doesn't really mean anything, if we signed him we could have at least 5 good seasons out of him.

But getting away from comical prices for overpriced English players you didn't actually answer the question, do you not agree that buying anyone of these three could actually result in buying a player who becomes quality in that they fit in with the rest of the players and create a team?

Well Baines because we need a full back, but I think Enrique is a better option. N'zogbia is never worth it and while Cahill is better than Soto, I don't think he is any more than that and I think Mertesacker is miles better, more experienced, only a year older and a far more accomplished and capable player and would cost considerably less.

[RichC]

[QUOTE=Mattshark;1935909]Well Baines because we need a full back, but I think Enrique is a better option. N'zogbia is never worth it and while Cahill is better than Soto, I don't think he is any more than that and I think Mertesacker is miles better, more experienced, only a year older and a far more accomplished and capable player and would cost considerably less.[/QUOTE]

Do you think he'd come? I've always thought good defender but worried about his pace or lack there of.

[Mattshark]

[quote=rcasemore;1935911]

Well Baines because we need a full back, but I think Enrique is a better option. N'zogbia is never worth it and while Cahill is better than Soto, I don't think he is any more than that and I think Mertesacker is miles better, more experienced, only a year older and a far more accomplished and capable player and would cost considerably less.[/QUOTE]

Do you think he'd come? I've always thought good defender but worried about his pace or lack there of.

I think he'd come. I'd have faith in his positioning, which is something he has exhibited for Germany.

[RichC]

He's a good player and as said it's not all about pace - Sami certainly proved that in his time here.

If we could get him here I'd certainly be happy with that signing, still think we'd need another CB - my faith in Agger has reached an all time low, just crocked too ofter to rely on (previously defended him)

[Mattshark]

He's a good player and as said it's not all about pace - Sami certainly proved that in his time here.

If we could get him here I'd certainly be happy with that signing, still think we'd need another CB - my faith in Agger has reached an all time low, just crocked too ofter to rely on (previously defended him)

Yeah, I'd like a ball player too, but that is a much tougher prospect to pick up.

[RichC]

it is indeed - such a shame with Agger and his injuries as he is a top class ball playing cb just so unreliable with injuries.

[DannyMan2006]

Emiliano Insua was pushed through too early, if we'd have brought him on better he'd still be here.