An Epic Swindle by Brian Reade

[pezzzer]

I'd like to say that cringeworthy childish attempting 'belittling' tactics werent your usual style, but i'm not sure if such a claim would really hold up. I feel a bit silly for assuming you were a bit more mature than to go down that route purely because someone disagrees with you.

Your comments on the topic matter are no less off the mark.


Whether or not it's a 'difficult idea' as you patronisingly dismiss, the notion that Hicks or Gillett needed ANYTHING from the fans, in order to sack Benitez, is wildly inaccurate. These are two who never once cared about the fans, beyond whether or not tickets were being bought and i find it utterly beyond comprehension that two men who conducted their entire ownership acting contrary to what the fans wanted, suddenly felt empowered by the same people who they'd shown such contempt throughout their tenure, to the extent that they suddenly 'could' sack the manager.

I think your fondness for Benitez is clouding your judgement quite emphatically because the notion that those two clowns felt like they needed something from the fans before acting, is entirely inconsistent with every single other thing they did during their ownership. There's no evidence to support that point whatsoever, indeed, all evidence available points to the contrary.

I'm genuinely surprised that you think Hicks and Gillett needed to be 'enabled' to do anything, by the fans.

tbf to neil craig HnG wnted rafa out after his outspoken PC after the CL final in Athens but they thought the fans wldnt buy it as he'd been succesful for the past 3 years.

says so in the book

[Red_Polo]

Why didn't they sack him sooner then?

[Neil Young]

They wanted Benitez out, in no small part because he wouldnt just sit there like a nodding dog and allow their bull**** to go unargued.

They didnt need the fans 'permission' to sack him and, with or without supporter blessing, if they had reached the point where they felt enough was enough, Rafa was on his way out - regardless.

That the on-field performances turned sour and led to some fans feeling that Rafa needed to go, certainly didnt harm Hicks or Gillett's desire to sack - i wouldnt suggest it did, nor that it made the sacking more difficult, because of course it didnt.

But it's still clear enough to me that, once they had reached the point where a decision on Benitez had been made, it was of little consequence that some fans were also of the opinion that a change in manager was necessary.

At least I was right about something. They didn't care at all about what the fans thought.

It's well known in marketing circles that if you don't care about public opinion, you spend money on a PR campaign. It's pretty much the golden rule.

[Red_Polo]

OK, you're right, I think Mourinho was going to join us too.

I don't think he's said that, though, has he? Might have missed it.

[JHP]

the notion that Hicks or Gillett needed ANYTHING from the fans, in order to sack Benitez, is wildly inaccurate. These are two who never once cared about the fans, beyond whether or not tickets were being bought and i find it utterly beyond comprehension that two men who conducted their entire ownership acting contrary to what the fans wanted, suddenly felt empowered by the same people who they'd shown such contempt throughout their tenure, to the extent that they suddenly 'could' sack the manager.
.

I agree with much that you say about H&G but I think you're forgetting who was running the club at the time. Broughton dismissed Benitez.

H&G weren't talking to one another. The banks were effectively running the club through Broughton.

Broughton would certainly have found it more difficult to support Purslow and dismiss Benetiz if he believed fans were fully united behind Benitez.

[Craig_H]

F*cking hell, I'm being analysed remotely by old Craigy. It's uncanny, such insight, such wisdom...

OK, you're right, I think Mourinho was going to join us too. And yup, of course, I was completely deluded to believe we were going to get a **** manager in as Benitez's replacement. How can I have been so wrong?

I expect I'm also wrong to think it's strange that Hicks and Gillett launched a PR campaign against the manager. I expect they only did it because they weren't remotely concerned about what the fans might think if they sacked him.

I dont know why i'm actually bothering to reply because you're coming across in a manner which makes me not think you're worth the effort, which isnt something i often think where you're concerned....but i'll give the benefit of the doubt, because you're normally more respectful.

Some fans turning against Rafa made the sacking easier, of course it did. But the simple viewpoint i am expressing is that, if/when G&H reached the point where they'd decided Benitez had to go, even if the manager had 100% support from the fans, they would have still made the same decision, because they didnt really hold the supporters feelings in such a high regard.

If you disagree with this, that's fine. If you think G&H cared about the fans' wishes and cared about how the fans felts, then no problem. I dont think they did, but if you did, then each to their own.

[Red_Polo]

So, Craig, are you saying that they only realised he was an intolerable thorn in their side at the time they sacked him, or that they sacked him on the basis of results?

[Craig_H]

At least I was right about something. They didn't care at all about what the fans thought.

It's well known in marketing circles that if you don't care about public opinion, you spend money on a PR campaign. It's pretty much the golden rule.

It's not black and white as to suggest they entirely cared about the fans feelings on things, or they completely didnt.

They cared, only as far as maintaining ticket sales/revenues was concerned. They didnt care to the point where, if they felt attendances would be maintained and if they'd still be generating revenues, they would change their decision on something based on the fans' viewpoint.

Your point about PR campaigns is right but as i've said, it's not that black and white. If it was, and if they really did care a great deal how the fans felt, how does anyone try to explain their actions for pretty much 90% of their ownership (if not all of it) which led to Liverpool fans, virtually to a man, detesting them and everything about them?

[Neil Young]

I don't think he's said that, though, has he? Might have missed it.

He did say it at the time and has done so since.

But really that's OK. Craig is only human and we all make mistakes. I don't hold it against him.

Btw Craig, you don't half use the word 'genuinely' a lot.

[Craig_H]

My only question to those who thought that the feelings of fans were held so sacred by Gillett and Hicks, that they only sacked Benitez because they thought they were doing what (some) fans wanted, why then did they completely ignore ALL of the wishes of the fans throughout ALL of the rest of their ownership?

Those surely arent the actions of men who wanted to do what made the fans happy?

[Craig_H]

He did say it at the time and has done so since.

But really that's OK. Craig is only human and we all make mistakes. I don't hold it against him.

Btw Craig, you don't half use the word 'genuinely' a lot.

Do i? I try to be genuine Neil.

And contrary to what you might think, and i dont blame you for thinking it because i know it's not born out of any malice, but if i'm wrong i will happily admit it.

I dont keep a log of everything i've ever said/posted and over the course of time, as circumstances may change, so may my views in keeping with the changes of circumstance. But if you would like to post things i've said, i will genuinely admit they were wrong, if i feel them to have been.

And never once would i claim to never be wrong. I genuinely wouldnt

[Red_Polo]

He did say it at the time and has done so since.

But really that's OK. Craig is only human and we all make mistakes. I don't hold it against him.

Btw Craig, you don't half use the word 'genuinely' a lot.

Hmm...I might be wrong, but I thought Craig always used to say if we got new owners Mourinho would come to us, otherwise no way.

[pezzzer]

My only question to those who thought that the feelings of fans were held so sacred by Gillett and Hicks, that they only sacked Benitez because they thought they were doing what (some) fans wanted, why then did they completely ignore ALL of the wishes of the fans throughout ALL of the rest of their ownership?

Those surely arent the actions of men who wanted to do what made the fans happy?

they didnt sack him after the CL final outbrst in Athens though as they thought there wld be a backlash from fans.

said it in the book

[Red_Polo]

My only question to those who thought that the feelings of fans were held so sacred by Gillett and Hicks, that they only sacked Benitez because they thought they were doing what (some) fans wanted, why then did they completely ignore ALL of the wishes of the fans throughout ALL of the rest of their ownership?

Those surely arent the actions of men who wanted to do what made the fans happy?

I don't necessarily agree with Neil's rather extreme view on those who wanted Rafa sacked, but I don't think you're fairly representing his stance there. He's not said they only sacked Rafa because the fans wanted it, he's suggested that those who wanted Rafa out acted as enablers for the owners.

[Craig_H]

Hmm...I might be wrong, but I thought Craig always used to say if we got new owners Mourinho would come to us, otherwise no way.

Thanks Polo. That was indeed my viewpoint, and Mourinho himself made a very 'subtle' point about there being a specific reason why he wouldnt come to LFC in an interview he did, whilst G&H were still here. He never mentioned them by name, but i think lots of people interpreted him as meaning Gillett and Hicks were the obstacle.

I think Mourinho would have come under proper owners, but that said, the way things turned out led to us having Kenny and i certainly dont want Mourinho over the King.