In Comolli We Trust

[Muddled]

Still very heavy with assumptions. Your particular take is just that and is no more likely to be correct than anyone else's.

We are entitled to have a ceiling above which we won't go and if it means missing out on players, so be it. In the past we've paid over the odds for players who didn't work out - the list is quite extensive - so I'd much prefer us to pull out when our ceiling has been reached.

Besides, Wickham's goal-scoring record is modest for one with his reputation and it's noticeable that we weren't exactly competing with Europe's elite for his signature. So I'm not losing any sleep over "missing out" on Wickham and long may what you perceive as our stubborn stance continue

Would it be fair to say that we have missed out on players, were we have refused to pay that little bit extra? Surely it works both ways? Yes, we have to consider some players to have a top price, but some players you have to pay that little bix extra for?

I can appreciate the Wickham example isn't the best, but it's the only example available due to the short period of time under FSG and Comolli.

I reaise this is continued along my hypothetical questioning, but this is a forum afer all; what if this stubborn stance is costing us wrapping up the Mata deal before other teams steal a march on us.

We know Comolli was in Valencia a month ago, if I can do a quick sum of two plus two and get five, what if he's refusing to budge above the £17m ceiling price we have set for him?

[RedReet]

Out of curiosity, if we had of spent an extra £50m on Jones, Young and Wickham, would those with doubts consider this window a success?

I can understand why some are a little under whelmed with our transfers so far, but would adding that bunch above be much more inspiring?

I genuinely believe that 99% of the criticism aimed at Comolli etc. is not because of his negotiating skills or lack of, but borne out of frustration because we haven’t added an exotic name to our squad list. I haven’t been convinced by a single argument criticising our summer dealings so far, bar the fact we’ve bought British based players from mid-table teams.

[BrooklynRed]

Out of curiosity, if we had of spent an extra £50m on Jones, Young and Wickham, would those with doubts consider this window a success?

Not for me. Jones would have been nice, Young and Downing about the same for me, Wickham is one for the future. I guess I am fixated on "marquee signing" which means I'm probably stupid, but I want another player along the lines of Suarez, which seems to me one of the best pieces of business we've done in forever. To me, Suarez is the perfect level of target and price. I wish all of our deals were similar (despite how it went down) in terms of the level of player and the price paid. Impossible probably, but that to me is Liverpool standard.

Andy Carroll for me is an incredibly high risk signing at that price, and represents the worst in terms of business. even if he comes good, it is a high risk/ high reward/failure signing. I don't like it at all. I would prefer another winger to Downing, but ok, he's here now, Henderson is one for the future I think, Adam is a decent signing but no world beater, and Doni on a free, well, what's to say.

On the other hand, selling Torres looks to have been a master stroke.

Mixed bag. We need to build for the future, but we also seem poised to push now and need help at key positions and another marquee player IMO.

[Exiled_red]

Would those add-on's come out of future transfer budgets though? Surely a £9m investment this summer, would mean that if we have to pay an extra £2m (for arguments sake) because we have qualifed for the Champions League, means that, that add-on has pretty much paid for itself? So it could be argued that bending those fee's we'd previously said we wouldn't go above, was worth it?

I can see your point; we have a £6m and £9m to go for a player, but if £9m can secure him, yet we have to pay that little bit extra in one, two or five years time, that extra expense would be covered by our success that the add-on demands? If we had to fork out £12m up front, then yes - I agree, we have to walk away as it's not met our valuation, but if we walked away because we were too confident he would hold out for a move to us, that surely is an error?

I don't know how the clubs finances work, bu t I would assume that we sould have to put aside expenses for add-ons dues to appearences and goals etc, where as add-ons based on league success or champions league qualification would come from the prize money asociated with the success.

Again the additional fees paid and whether this represents value for money depends on the structure of the deal. For example if we sign a player and he makes 1 Premeirship appearence and we go on to win the league, and thus have to pay £1m in add-ons for him, despite winning the league you could argue his one appearence contributed little towards that success therefore the success doesn't always justify the add-ons.

Again going back to my earlier point if we valued him at £6m but were prepared to pay up to £9m plus add-ons, if he is a failure we are still looking to make a loss which we would assume would be a minimum of £3m (the difference between what we paid an what he was worth). As much of his value is based on potential the loss is likely to be much more. As well as considering how much we could save by buying him now and developing him, we also have to consider how much we would lose if he isn't a success.

[JudgeRed]

Still very heavy with assumptions. Your particular take is just that and is no more likely to be correct than anyone else's.

We are entitled to have a ceiling above which we won't go and if it means missing out on players, so be it. In the past we've paid over the odds for players who didn't work out - the list is quite extensive - so I'd much prefer us to pull out when our ceiling has been reached.Besides, Wickham's goal-scoring record is modest for one with his reputation and it's noticeable that we weren't exactly competing with Europe's elite for his signature. So I'm not losing any sleep over "missing out" on Wickham and long may what you perceive as our stubborn stance continue

Im sure when the news had first broken about the FSG takeover, people on the site were asking what type of spenders they would be. One of our American posters, Im sure it was Dave Hedgehog said that FSG dont mind spending big money- as long as they value the player at that amount. it was also said that they would very rarely go over the amount that they considered the player to be worth. This was based on the approach that they had used in baseball IIRC. So in short, i dont think its necessarily Commolis negotiating tactics that are slowing us down in the transfer market/ allowing us to miss out on transfers.

By the way Dave, if it wasnt you- apologies.

[Chris]

it seems we lost out on Jones by dragging our feet

Does it?! This is whats annoying me, no evidence at all to suggest anything like that. There is evidence to suggest he preferred Man Utd all along though.

I genuinely believe that 99% of the criticism aimed at Comolli etc. is not because of his negotiating skills or lack of, but born out of frustration because we haven’t added an exotic name to our squad list.

Yep, this is exactly it. If we'd bid £12m, £15m, £20m and landed Mata by mid July he'd be a hero.

[Norbs]

The essence I got from the original post is that we identify targets, concentrate on them and seemingly get them. Sounds ok to me.

I'll worry when these players turn out to be duds next season, until then I'm happy with how things are panning out. At least we have a pot to piss in.

Not 'if'?

[Muddled]

Out of curiosity, if we had of spent an extra £50m on Jones, Young and Wickham, would those with doubts consider this window a success?

I can understand why some are a little under whelmed with our transfers so far, but would adding that bunch above be much more inspiring?

I genuinely believe that 99% of the criticism aimed at Comolli etc. is not because of his negotiating skills or lack of, but born out of frustration because we haven’t added an exotic name to our squad list. I haven’t been convinced by a single argument criticising our summer dealings so far, bar the fact we’ve bought British based players from mid-table teams.

No, I'm willing to wait until the end of the transfer window to judge if it's been a success in terms of the players we have bought. Missing out on Young and Jones hasn't bothered me, I'm just hoping we sign a left-back - that's what we currently lack in my opinion.

If we were to sell N'gog, then I'd like to see him replaced and I'm of the opinion that our defence needs to be addressed; I don't want it replacing in one go, I would ideally like us to see it done gradually. With the age of Carragher and the fraility of Agger, a centre-back wouldn't go a miss this summer, but is not that high on the agenda.

[Exiled_red]

Out of curiosity, if we had of spent an extra £50m on Jones, Young and Wickham, would those with doubts consider this window a success?

I can understand why some are a little under whelmed with our transfers so far, but would adding that bunch above be much more inspiring?

I genuinely believe that 99% of the criticism aimed at Comolli etc. is not because of his negotiating skills or lack of, but born out of frustration because we haven’t added an exotic name to our squad list. I haven’t been convinced by a single argument criticising our summer dealings so far, bar the fact we’ve bought British based players from mid-table teams.

Not that I'm one of the major doubters, but I think this is an interesting point.

For me Young and Downing are more or less the same and we would have only signed one IMO. Young is perhaps the more eye catching which is probably why he would have been perceived as a more high profile signing, but I believe there is little between them in terms of ability.

Wickham to be honest I'm not that bothered we missed out on him, his price was high and it was based mostly on potential. Given that we have Suarez, Carroll and Kuyt who would all have been ahead of him, I would imagine his first team opportunities with us would have been limited, and hence I don't believe he would have developed into the player people believe he has the potential to be quickly enough, to be a big success with us. I think someone like Sunderland was probably the right move for him at this stage of his career.

Jones is an interesting one, it's not so much a case of us doing something wrong in the deal (not offering enough in terms of transfer fee or wages, or coming in too late etc) it's that Man Utd were also in for him and he wanted to go there. This is also true of Young.

I don't think there was anything Comolli (or Dalglish or the owners) could do about the Young or Jones deals, both wanted to go to Man Utd.

[Neil Young]

I don't think there was anything Comolli (or Dalglish or the owners) could do about the Young or Jones deals, both wanted to go to Man Utd.

I agree, it really could be that simple. Who knows for sure but Occam's Razor is a useful principle to adopt for this sort of thing.

[BrooklynRed]

Does it?! This is whats annoying me, no evidence at all to suggest anything like that. There is evidence to suggest he preferred Man Utd all along though.

Maybe? It's all speculation, although it does seem clear he preferred United. Perhaps if we had gone in early with a higher bid Rovers would have sold him on? I don't know for sure. Speculating, as we all are.

[RedReet]

Not for me. Jones would have been nice, Young and Downing about the same for me, Wickham is one for the future. I guess I am fixated on "marquee signing" which means I'm probably stupid, but I want another player along the lines of Suarez, which seems to me one of the best pieces of business we've done in forever. To me, Suarez is the perfect level of target and price. I wish all of our deals were similar (despite how it went down) in terms of the level of player and the price paid. Impossible probably, but that to me is Liverpool standard.

Andy Carroll for me is an incredibly high risk signing at that price, and represents the worst in terms of business. even if he comes good, it is a high risk/ high reward/failure signing. I don't like it at all. I would prefer another winger to Downing, but ok, he's here now, Henderson is one for the future I think, Adam is a decent signing but no world beater, and Doni on a free, well, what's to say.

On the other hand, selling Torres looks to have been a master stroke.

Mixed bag. We need to build for the future, but we also seem poised to push now and need help at key positions and another marquee player IMO.

Nah, that’s fair enough.

Craig seems to see United’s transfer activity as some sort of success story compared to ours and I was just wondering if anyone else was in the same boat.

Said myself last week in the Cissokho thread that I think we need another match winner in the squad as Suarez will miss the start of the season and Gerrard will take a while to get his fitness back. At least one is also likely to pick up the odd injury too during the season and that will leave us very light in that department.

I’ve always had a sneaky feeling we might pull out a surprise marquee signing before the window closes, but if we don’t I won’t be too bothered, at least until the others have been given time to prove themselves.

No, I'm willing to wait until the end of the transfer window to judge if it's been a success in terms of the players we have bought. Missing out on Young and Jones hasn't bothered me, I'm just hoping we sign a left-back - that's what we currently lack in my opinion.

If we were to sell N'gog, then I'd like to see him replaced and I'm of the opinion that our defence needs to be addressed; I don't want it replacing in one go, I would ideally like us to see it done gradually. With the age of Carragher and the fraility of Agger, a centre-back wouldn't go a miss this summer, but is not that high on the agenda.

If say, Enrique and Dann were our last two signings, how would you see it then?

[RedReet]

Not that I'm one of the major doubters, but I think this is an interesting point.

For me Young and Downing are more or less the same and we would have only signed one IMO. Young is perhaps the more eye catching which is probably why he would have been perceived as a more high profile signing, but I believe there is little between them in terms of ability.

Wickham to be honest I'm not that bothered we missed out on him, his price was high and it was based mostly on potential. Given that we have Suarez, Carroll and Kuyt who would all have been ahead of him, I would imagine his first team opportunities with us would have been limited, and hence I don't believe he would have developed into the player people believe he has the potential to be quickly enough, to be a big success with us. I think someone like Sunderland was probably the right move for him at this stage of his career.

Jones is an interesting one, it's not so much a case of us doing something wrong in the deal (not offering enough in terms of transfer fee or wages, or coming in too late etc) it's that Man Utd were also in for him and he wanted to go there. This is also true of Young.

I don't think there was anything Comolli (or Dalglish or the owners) could do about the Young or Jones deals, both wanted to go to Man Utd.

I think what’s preserving my sanity through this window is that the players we have missed out on haven’t bothered me too much. That’s not to say I don’t think they’d have strengthened the team, I just think alternatives shouldn’t be that hard to find. It also helps that at the minute our rivals aren’t adding players that worry me too much either and some are fighting a losing battle holding on to those that do.

[Muddled]

If say, Enrique and Dann were our last two signings, how would you see it then?

I'd be very happy with Enrique; the missus is a Newcastle fan, so I've seen him both live and when watching them on the box and think he would provide a threat going forward, as well being defensively sound. He rarely gets beaten on the ground, is quick (enough) and would add further balance to our team with the addition of Adam and Downing.

As for Dann, I haven't seen enough of him to comment.

[Mostar]

I’m sure Mostar is working on that as we speak.