Our system and teamwork

[Exiled_red]

I think that one of our biggest problems this season has been the lack of a consistent system and style of play, we've played 9 games now so are a quarter of the way through the season and we still have no idea what formation we will play and who will play in each position. The is something to be said for changing system or formations for occasional games (perhaps playing more solidly/defensively against the bigger sides), but contantly changing the system and the players playing in those positions means players don't know their roles in the team and don't have an understanding of what their team mates are doing.

If you look at the chances that we have created the majority of them have come from moments of individual brilliance rather than good link up play between the team. Our best players have been the players that can create a chance for themselves (Suarez and Bellamy). We need to decide on a system and play it consistently so that players understand their roles and can work on partnerships and develop an understanding of their team mates.

For me a typical example of this is Downing, I know alot of people are getting on his back, and I'm not saying that he's played well, but if you consider that he's new to the club and most of us thought he was brought in to supply crosses to Andy Carroll. Carroll is only playing half the time, when Carroll plays you would expect Downing to play on the left and cross balls onto Carroll's head. If Carroll isn't playing and we have Kuyt and Suarez, Downing's role is different, neither Kuyt nor Suarez will be effective with the same type of balls he'd play for Carroll, again if we only play Suarez up front what is expected of Downing is different again. If we have Downing playing on the right that is a whole other set of options as to what is expected of him. Is it any wonder he hasn't been that effective for us? You could make similar agruements for other players too, Kuyt, Henderson, Gerrard...

For me we need to decide on a system and let players develop an understanding of the role they will play, I'm not saying we have to stick with that system all the time, but we should try to make as few changes as possible, develop some understanding and cohesion in the team, and get back to playing as a team.

[Kenneth]

We don't have the players to play 442, in CM and on the right, and it doesn't make good use of gerrard. And suarez, our beat player, doesn't really suit 451. Shame really.

[Exiled_red]

We don't have the players to play 442, in CM and on the right, and it doesn't make good use of gerrard. And suarez, our beat player, doesn't really suit 451. Shame really.

We need to find a system that suits us, at the moment I don't know what that is, the problem is I don't think Kenny or the coaching staff know either.

[RichC]

4-5-1 would suit with Suarez playing off the front and not the main target man.

[Exiled_red]

I think with the players we have the system we used to play under Rafa is probably the best suited to the players we have at the moment. On paper I'd be tempted to go with:

------------Reina---------------

Johnson Carragher Agger Enrique

--------Lucas---Gerrard---------

Kuyt---------Suarez------Bellamy

-------------Carroll--------------

Realistically there are a couple of problems with this, mainly it requires alot of Carroll, who so far in his time here hasn't shown himself capable of playing such a role, and it requires Gerrard to play the 'Alonso role'.

The other alternative would be to play Gerrard on the right in Kuyt's place and Adam replacing Gerrard in the centre of midfield. The advantage being Gerrard would get forward more (still not in his ideal position though), the disadvantage being IMO Gerrard would be better in central midfield than Adam.

[ric.williams]

For me a typical example of this is Downing, I know alot of people are getting on his back, and I'm not saying that he's played well,

i think in the last couple of games he has put the crosses in that we bought him for. they either hvent been converted or no one attacked the danger area where cross was likely to come in. if we had scored goals from these crosses we might have a different tune completely about the guy

[Exiled_red]

i think in the last couple of games he has put the crosses in that we bought him for. they either hvent been converted or no one attacked the danger area where cross was likely to come in. if we had scored goals from these crosses we might have a different tune completely about the guy

That's similar to what I've been saying, had the Andy Carroll we thought we'd bought been in the box for those crosses, as you say we might have a different opinion of Downing. The problem being we haven't, so what Downing has to do to be effective is different depending on whether Carroll is in the team or not.

He has put some decent balls in, in recent games; the one that Kuyt had saved against Man Utd was a great ball, so we know he's capable of doing it. I think he just needs to know what is expected of him, whether he's supposed to be putting balls in for Carroll's head, or low crosses across the six yard box for some else to come on to. After a few games playing the same way and developing some understanding with the strikers I think he'll be a much more effective player for us. I think it would be a similar situation with a few others too.

[Rowan]

Thinking about formations the options are endless. We seem to have two tons of midfielders! But I'd take Kuyt and Adam out the starting side and maybe give Lucas and Henderson a go in the middle. Gerrard needs to fit in there somewhere which means either pushing Suarez outside to play him more centrally and accommodating Carroll or sticking Gerrard out right forward, Suarez off Carroll and Bellers/ Downing left.

[Arn]

We don't have the players to play 442, in CM and on the right, and it doesn't make good use of gerrard. And suarez, our beat player, doesn't really suit 451. Shame really.

Kenny need to get the best out of the players. Play a system that suits them. Look at what system that is best for the team.

If he don't? Well, then he will be sacked because we will drop to many points.

It is up to him. He can be a success but then he need to admit that 4-4-2 isn't working. Continue to play it and our season could be over in a couple of months time. We could by then be 10+ points of fourth and that would be a disaster.

[Corndog]

I understand what you're getting at, but imo, they don't even have the basic combinations right (perhaps this is as you point out due to changing formations) but i think it runs deeper than that, the new players have not gelled straight away and thats causing alot of problems in the final third, how often do we see a flick pass into open space but nobody running onto it because they didnt expect it, or how often do we see players shooting when they have a man they could slide in across the box?

[ric.williams]

Kenny need to get the best out of the players. Play a system that suits them. Look at what system that is best for the team.

If he don't? Well, then he will be sacked because we will drop to many points.

It is up to him. He can be a success but then he need to admit that 4-4-2 isn't working. Continue to play it and our season could be over in a couple of months time. We could by then be 10+ points of fourth and that would be a disaster.

but he bought half the players so we should have the players to play it if thats the system we are looking to play

[Arn]

I understand what you're getting at, but imo, they don't even have the basic combinations right (perhaps this is as you point out due to changing formations) but i think it runs deeper than that, the new players have not gelled straight away and thats causing alot of problems in the final third, how often do we see a flick pass into open space but nobody running onto it because they didnt expect it, or how often do we see players shooting when they have a man they could slide in across the box?

They aren't even given a fair chance to gel. If you change system like we have done to 4-4-2 then you expect the manager to play almost the same starting XI in every game to get them a chance to gel. Then you play players that suit that system, like Downing on the left and Carroll as one of the strikers.

Now he is playing 4-4-2 with Downing on the right and Carroll on the bench. Why?

That isn't getting the best out of players. You get the best out of both Downing and Carroll if Downing is playing on the left and Carroll in the middle.

You won't even get the best out of Downing if he play on the left and Carroll isn't playing.

Why did it worked at Villa and not now? Simply because Downing always had a big target to aim at. He knew what he should do. Put crosses in and the big target man did the rest.

That is what is good at.

[Norbs]

4-5-1 would suit with Suarez playing off the front and not the main target man.

Spot on. Been thinking for a while that Suarez should be playing the central man in a 4-2-3-1 alongside any two out of Maxi, Kuyt, Gerrard, Downing or Bellamy and then either Carroll or Kuyt up front. Lucas and Adam or Henderson behind would set up really nicely. Suarez's trickery would be better used if he had more distance between himself and the goal, with options to use the ball himself or create for someone else. Defences wouldn't know what to do either.

[Arn]

but he bought half the players so we should have the players to play it if thats the system we are looking to play

I don't think Kenny expected to lose Meireles and that Gerrard would be out injured until October. It was madness to sell Meireles and not replacing him.

If Gerrard had been fit earlier and Meireles had stayed then 4-4-2 would probably worked.

Now we don't have the players to play 4-4-2.

[ric.williams]

I don't think Kenny expected to lose Meireles and that Gerrard would be out injured until October. It was madness to sell Meireles and not replacing him.

If Gerrard had been fit earlier and Meireles had stayed then 4-4-2 would probably worked.

Now we don't have the players to play 4-4-2.

but we dont hve anyone to play on the right? and mereiles is not a right mid