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    #31
    I would like to see 3 in midfield. I think that could go a long way towards solving several of the problems which occur. Firstly, Lucas is our only decent player that is capable of making tackles and ensure we keep shape, that being said I've always seen him as he describes it as a "second defensive midfield player" rather than a true holder, like Mascherano or Hamann. This means from the get go, we're quite fragmented tactically, but sure he's capable of either forming a 2 or 3 man midfield.

    The problem lies with his partner, Adam is not by any means capable of playing in a double pivot at this level. Gerrard hasn't played that role successfully for a long, long time, and i've always been of the opinion if we're not using Gerrard on the right, or behind the striker we're highlighting his weaknesses and limiting his strengths, or his opportunity to put his strengths into use. Adam is okay for now and then, but because of the current tactical set up, he's our most important player as how we attack hinges on him. He's nowhere near consistent enough, tries too many killer balls, ignores good passing options for more glorious ones (or runs) and genuinely isn't fit enough - the fat ****. I'm not saying by any means he should've stayed, but I'd have liked to see what we'd look like with a trio of Lucas, Rual and Gerrard. Seeing that isn't an option I think that Henderson is capable of playing that not too attacking, not too defensive role. It allows him to be tidy without being spectacular but if he can consistently collect the ball and recycle it, it'd go a long way towards helping us maintain possession and increasing the quality of play.

    So let's say something like this:
    -------Lucas
    Gerrard - Henderson

    Gerrard can play similar to how he is now, but it gives him the option of pressing upwards and making the extra man. For me it's still not his best position but it gives him the freedom to make the difference. Also there is the option of having Gerrard in the position that Henderson would be playing in and having Adam as the creative force in midfield, although I'd prefer that to be a plan B or C rather than the first choice, I just don't see Adam having what it takes to really drive us forward, I don't know how we could've put so much risk in a player who has played most of his recent football in a relegation battling team or in the Championship. I know he played in the CL for Rangers, but lets be honest we're a different story.

    Uptop, that'd enable a 3 who can interchange as the game goes by, which would suite Bellamy and Suarez greatly. It brings in the possibility of Maxi (I think Maxi is best in a 4-2-3-1 though) who played well in a similar position to this last season. The team is shouting out for a player like Maxi, it's a shame he isn't getting a look in. Unlike the 4-4-2 Bellamy isn't restricted in his attacking, and allows him to play as a striker as well, not just a wide player. Carroll can either be a point of focus for the attack (alas there won't be wing play, but tbh we haven't exactly thrived on that either) and could create a very difficult trio to play against. Also, back on the wing play bit, if our attackers pressed in and were more narrow, it would encourage our fullbacks; Johnson and Enrique whom are both very capable crossers of the ball, to press forward and provide that option.


    If Carroll doesn't come right, then the option of Kuyt, Suarez and Bellamy would be hell for any team to play against if you consider their tenacity and ability to play for eachother and in eachother's roles. They're well adjusted to the pass and move school of thought and think about their play, i.e. linking up, passing into space, leaving the ball to run, etc.

    Another positive of this kind of attacking system is, it would relieve the pressure on Suarez to score, and also increase his chances of creating goals. In the last few games he's been stuck up there by himself which limits his involvement in the build up, which is probably a loss for us considering he is our best player.

    I'm not sure about the defence because I don't think we have the personal to sort it out, just yet, the only central defender I trust is Agger and he's injury prone. Carra's easily past it, Skrtel is good for the occasion not each week and we're not in a position to see if Coates is ready yet. Don't really know what more can be said on it. Reina isn't having a good season either which is also worrying. I don't know what needs to be done, but Kenny and Clarke need to do something.

    A lot needs to be sorted out, I think that a few changes and teaks such as the sort of small transformation I've stated would make a difference. I.e. just little things like ensuring that just because Carroll is on the pitch we don't have to hoof it at his head every time. I think that we're shooting ourselves ignoring a ready resource like Maxi who would solve several problems just by getting onto the pitch. It's not all doom and gloom but there's a lot of work that we need to improve upon.

    Comment


      #32
      We're also sitting far too deep to accommodate Carra's lack of pace.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Patricks_Berger View Post
        To me it's obvious.

        4-3-3

        Bellamy-Carroll-Suarez
        Adam-Lucas-Gerrard
        Enrique-Agger-Carra-Johnson

        Yet that team has ever played together. Also selling Meireles has proved to be a mistake.Feeling quite about itall at the mo.Kenny has made some odd choices this year plus no luck at all.
        Similar for me

        Carroll
        Suarez
        Gerrard

        Adam Lucas Hendo

        Enrique,Agger,Skrtel,Johnson


        Gerrard is well capable of putting great balls in for either Carroll or Suarez,he has to be up there with them,albeit slightly behind

        Comment


          #34
          We also lose control of the centre of the pitch to have control of the wide areas of the pitch in my opinion
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          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Zapater View Post
            I would like to see 3 in midfield. I think that could go a long way towards solving several of the problems which occur. Firstly, Lucas is our only decent player that is capable of making tackles and ensure we keep shape, that being said I've always seen him as he describes it as a "second defensive midfield player" rather than a true holder, like Mascherano or Hamann. This means from the get go, we're quite fragmented tactically, but sure he's capable of either forming a 2 or 3 man midfield.

            The problem lies with his partner, Adam is not by any means capable of playing in a double pivot at this level. Gerrard hasn't played that role successfully for a long, long time, and i've always been of the opinion if we're not using Gerrard on the right, or behind the striker we're highlighting his weaknesses and limiting his strengths, or his opportunity to put his strengths into use. Adam is okay for now and then, but because of the current tactical set up, he's our most important player as how we attack hinges on him. He's nowhere near consistent enough, tries too many killer balls, ignores good passing options for more glorious ones (or runs) and genuinely isn't fit enough - the fat ****. I'm not saying by any means he should've stayed, but I'd have liked to see what we'd look like with a trio of Lucas, Rual and Gerrard. Seeing that isn't an option I think that Henderson is capable of playing that not too attacking, not too defensive role. It allows him to be tidy without being spectacular but if he can consistently collect the ball and recycle it, it'd go a long way towards helping us maintain possession and increasing the quality of play.

            So let's say something like this:
            -------Lucas
            Gerrard - Henderson

            Gerrard can play similar to how he is now, but it gives him the option of pressing upwards and making the extra man. For me it's still not his best position but it gives him the freedom to make the difference. Also there is the option of having Gerrard in the position that Henderson would be playing in and having Adam as the creative force in midfield, although I'd prefer that to be a plan B or C rather than the first choice, I just don't see Adam having what it takes to really drive us forward, I don't know how we could've put so much risk in a player who has played most of his recent football in a relegation battling team or in the Championship. I know he played in the CL for Rangers, but lets be honest we're a different story.

            Uptop, that'd enable a 3 who can interchange as the game goes by, which would suite Bellamy and Suarez greatly. It brings in the possibility of Maxi (I think Maxi is best in a 4-2-3-1 though) who played well in a similar position to this last season. The team is shouting out for a player like Maxi, it's a shame he isn't getting a look in. Unlike the 4-4-2 Bellamy isn't restricted in his attacking, and allows him to play as a striker as well, not just a wide player. Carroll can either be a point of focus for the attack (alas there won't be wing play, but tbh we haven't exactly thrived on that either) and could create a very difficult trio to play against. Also, back on the wing play bit, if our attackers pressed in and were more narrow, it would encourage our fullbacks; Johnson and Enrique whom are both very capable crossers of the ball, to press forward and provide that option.


            If Carroll doesn't come right, then the option of Kuyt, Suarez and Bellamy would be hell for any team to play against if you consider their tenacity and ability to play for eachother and in eachother's roles. They're well adjusted to the pass and move school of thought and think about their play, i.e. linking up, passing into space, leaving the ball to run, etc.

            Another positive of this kind of attacking system is, it would relieve the pressure on Suarez to score, and also increase his chances of creating goals. In the last few games he's been stuck up there by himself which limits his involvement in the build up, which is probably a loss for us considering he is our best player.

            I'm not sure about the defence because I don't think we have the personal to sort it out, just yet, the only central defender I trust is Agger and he's injury prone. Carra's easily past it, Skrtel is good for the occasion not each week and we're not in a position to see if Coates is ready yet. Don't really know what more can be said on it. Reina isn't having a good season either which is also worrying. I don't know what needs to be done, but Kenny and Clarke need to do something.

            A lot needs to be sorted out, I think that a few changes and teaks such as the sort of small transformation I've stated would make a difference. I.e. just little things like ensuring that just because Carroll is on the pitch we don't have to hoof it at his head every time. I think that we're shooting ourselves ignoring a ready resource like Maxi who would solve several problems just by getting onto the pitch. It's not all doom and gloom but there's a lot of work that we need to improve upon.


            Excellent post.
            Stop the cyberhate


            from now on I will skip talking about our finances. That is a promise and will save myself from looking like a

            Susan Black

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Lee View Post
              We're also sitting far too deep to accommodate Carra's lack of pace.
              Agreed. Carra & Skrtel I'm really not at all happy with at the back. Coates is obviously being given time to settle, and Agger, well, if he could just stay fit..... so its not like we really have had much choice, but its not doing us any favours.

              I also think we're simply not combative enough in midfield. When we played so well in the second half of last season it was mostly with Lucas & Spearing playing together, winning the ball then distributing it to the likes of Maxi, Suarez and Meireles further up the pitch. Yesterday during Norwich's couple of decent spells in the game we just sat off them and took forever to get possession back, we really can't afford to keep doing that.
              I could not dig, I dared not rob:
              Therefore I lied to please the mob.
              Now all my lies are proved untrue
              And I must face the men I slew.
              What tale shall serve me here among
              Mine angry and defrauded young?

              Comment


                #37
                I'd prefer us making the odd mistake at the back if it was down to bedding in Enrique or Coates - building for the future. Sadly it's our senior players making the errors.
                James Philip Milner Fanclub #1

                Curtis Julian Jones Fanclub #1

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by MrMichael View Post
                  Agreed. Carra & Skrtel I'm really not at all happy with at the back. Coates is obviously being given time to settle, and Agger, well, if he could just stay fit..... so its not like we really have had much choice, but its not doing us any favours.

                  I also think we're simply not combative enough in midfield. When we played so well in the second half of last season it was mostly with Lucas & Spearing playing together, winning the ball then distributing it to the likes of Maxi, Suarez and Meireles further up the pitch. Yesterday during Norwich's couple of decent spells in the game we just sat off them and took forever to get possession back, we really can't afford to keep doing that.


                  With Lucas out yesterday Spearing should've come in.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by MrMichael View Post
                    Agreed. Carra & Skrtel I'm really not at all happy with at the back. Coates is obviously being given time to settle, and Agger, well, if he could just stay fit..... so its not like we really have had much choice, but its not doing us any favours.

                    I also think we're simply not combative enough in midfield. When we played so well in the second half of last season it was mostly with Lucas & Spearing playing together, winning the ball then distributing it to the likes of Maxi, Suarez and Meireles further up the pitch. Yesterday during Norwich's couple of decent spells in the game we just sat off them and took forever to get possession back, we really can't afford to keep doing that.


                    You win and lose the game in midfield. Why did it work the 08-09 season and before then even when players like Torres and Gerrard was out injured a lot?

                    The answer is that we almost always won the midfield battle. We never played with only two in the middle. It was Mascherano, Xabi and Gerrard all the time when fit.

                    You don't need to be quick as a central midfielder. You do need to have excellent game intelligence and being able to win tackles more often than not.

                    How many times have we won the midfield this season?

                    Do Kenny make the team better? Do he win enough tactical battles?
                    Stop the cyberhate


                    from now on I will skip talking about our finances. That is a promise and will save myself from looking like a

                    Susan Black

                    Comment


                      #40
                      We're not aggressive enough when we don't have the ball. So many times last night Gerrard and Adam left gaps which allowed Norwich to have a pop at our goal. We lack a bull terrier in midfield. Not sure Spearing is good enough.
                      Are we winning?

                      Comment


                        #41
                        I think Spearing would have been good enough yesterday.

                        Originally posted by Arn View Post
                        Do Kenny make the team better? Do he win enough tactical battles?
                        I think he did last season. This season however we really just haven't been able to gell and integrate the new players into a system that's functioned fluidly and consistently enough. I do think there's plenty of chances to turn it around, we still should have won yesterday despite not being great in the second half, a bit more clinical in front of goal and it would have been an easy 3 points. And we were very close to beating ManU last week, again, a tiny bit more clinical and that was our 3 points. Yes we still would have a few structural issues even if we had won those games, the first 25 mins versus Spurs showed that, but we'd all feel an awful lot different about things if a couple of our players had been just a touch sharper in front of goal. That is not Kenny's fault imo.

                        Yes there's some things to be concerned about, and it appears some changes wouldn't go amiss, but I wouldn't say its time to panic yet.
                        I could not dig, I dared not rob:
                        Therefore I lied to please the mob.
                        Now all my lies are proved untrue
                        And I must face the men I slew.
                        What tale shall serve me here among
                        Mine angry and defrauded young?

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Carroll, Adam, Henderson and downing should've never been bought.
                          Brandt - Keita - Van Dijk - Sessegnon

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by MrMichael View Post
                            I think Spearing would have been good enough yesterday.

                            I think he did last season. This season however we really just haven't been able to gell and integrate the new players into a system that's functioned fluidly and consistently enough. I do think there's plenty of chances to turn it around, we still should have won yesterday despite not being great in the second half, a bit more clinical in front of goal and it would have been an easy 3 points. And we were very close to beating ManU last week, again, a tiny bit more clinical and that was our 3 points. Yes we still would have a few structural issues even if we had won those games, the first 25 mins versus Spurs showed that, but we'd all feel an awful lot different about things if a couple of our players had been just a touch sharper in front of goal. That is not Kenny's fault imo.

                            Yes there's some things to be concerned about, and it appears some changes wouldn't go amiss, but I wouldn't say its time to panic yet.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by MrMichael View Post
                              I think Spearing would have been good enough yesterday.



                              I think he did last season. This season however we really just haven't been able to gell and integrate the new players into a system that's functioned fluidly and consistently enough. I do think there's plenty of chances to turn it around, we still should have won yesterday despite not being great in the second half, a bit more clinical in front of goal and it would have been an easy 3 points. And we were very close to beating ManU last week, again, a tiny bit more clinical and that was our 3 points. Yes we still would have a few structural issues even if we had won those games, the first 25 mins versus Spurs showed that, but we'd all feel an awful lot different about things if a couple of our players had been just a touch sharper in front of goal. That is not Kenny's fault imo.

                              Yes there's some things to be concerned about, and it appears some changes wouldn't go amiss, but I wouldn't say its time to panic yet.
                              I must admit to being genuinely worried about being able to get into the Champions League and the CL really is a must this season.
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                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by MrMichael View Post
                                Agreed. Carra & Skrtel I'm really not at all happy with at the back. Coates is obviously being given time to settle, and Agger, well, if he could just stay fit..... so its not like we really have had much choice, but its not doing us any favours.

                                I also think we're simply not combative enough in midfield. When we played so well in the second half of last season it was mostly with Lucas & Spearing playing together, winning the ball then distributing it to the likes of Maxi, Suarez and Meireles further up the pitch. Yesterday during Norwich's couple of decent spells in the game we just sat off them and took forever to get possession back, we really can't afford to keep doing that.
                                The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.

                                Comment

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