Wigan: Post Match

[The Birdman]

Training. Like everyone else including Shelvey who Rodgers had planned on sending out on loan before he watched him train. Are you honestly suggesting that the only reason that Rodgers hasn't played him more is because he was signed by Kenny or because he underperformed last year? Are you saying that he deserves to be in the first team, but Rodgers isn't picking him basically out of spite?

Maybe I've picked you up wrong, because that's pretty ridiculous.

Between the Europa League and League Cup, Henderson must have had at least 6 starts so far this season. That's a pretty fair crack for an out of favour player and the manger can't be expected to persist with every player who is low on confidence or off form. It was great to see Henderson do well against Wigan but its not like he hasn't had his chances to impress before Saturday.

I'm just saying that it's pretty obvious Rodgers arrived with pre conceived ideas.
I'm not suggesting those ideas are wrong but don't you remember that quote that was knocking about pre season that 'The English **** are finished' or something like that.
FWIW I don't think Rodgers was planning on sending Shelvey out on loan, 1st thing he did was extend his contract and he was telling Shelvey how great he was on the pre season tour, that's just after watching him in training against kids without any of the 'better' players returning yet because all the internationals joined the team later on.

It is also a case that Henderson is probably the only player that Rodgers can get money for who isn't a nailed on 1st choice player.
Half the PL would sign Henderson if he were available for £7-8million. All of these factors come into whether Henderson features or not.

As for Henderson being given starts, yeah 1 at left wing, 1 at right back and probably 1 right wing as well.
I'm not saying Henderson is amazing but I'll tell you this, he would have done much better than Sahin has if given the same number of opportunities and the side would have been more balanced with him in it as well.

[Tee]

I'm just saying that it's pretty obvious Rodgers arrived with pre conceived ideas.
I'm not suggesting those ideas are wrong but don't you remember that quote that was knocking about pre season that 'The English **** are finished' or something like that.
FWIW I don't think Rodgers was planning on sending Shelvey out on loan, 1st thing he did was extend his contract and he was telling Shelvey how great he was on the pre season tour, that's just after watching him in training against kids without any of the 'better' players returning yet because all the internationals joined the team later on.

It is also a case that Henderson is probably the only player that Rodgers can get money for who isn't a nailed on 1st choice player.
Half the PL would sign Henderson if he were available for £7-8million. All of these factors come into whether Henderson features or not.

As for Henderson being given starts, yeah 1 at left wing, 1 at right back and probably 1 right wing as well.
I'm not saying Henderson is amazing but I'll tell you this, he would have done much better than Sahin has if given the same number of opportunities and the side would have been more balanced with him in it as well.

Debatable mate. Would he have scored those goals at Norwich? Not sure he makes enough forward runs like Sahin. Anyhow, I think Henderson has been here over a year and should have done much better, whereas Sahin is still a newcomer adjusting to this league. If and when Sahin clicks, there is no doubt he will start ahead of Hendo IMO.

[RedReet]

I'm just saying that it's pretty obvious Rodgers arrived with pre conceived ideas.
I'm not suggesting those ideas are wrong but don't you remember that quote that was knocking about pre season that 'The English **** are finished' or something like that.
FWIW I don't think Rodgers was planning on sending Shelvey out on loan, 1st thing he did was extend his contract and he was telling Shelvey how great he was on the pre season tour, that's just after watching him in training against kids without any of the 'better' players returning yet because all the internationals joined the team later on.

It is also a case that Henderson is probably the only player that Rodgers can get money for who isn't a nailed on 1st choice player.
Half the PL would sign Henderson if he were available for £7-8million. All of these factors come into whether Henderson features or not.

As for Henderson being given starts, yeah 1 at left wing, 1 at right back and probably 1 right wing as well.
I'm not saying Henderson is amazing but I'll tell you this, he would have done much better than Sahin has if given the same number of opportunities and the side would have been more balanced with him in it as well.

Wrote a more detailed post, but lost when when adding quote.

Anyway, of course BR had preconceived ideas before he joined, he said as much himself. He said that he knows what is needed to improve the first team and who isn't good enough, but I'm sure that wasn't set in stone and he isn't so stubborn that he wouldn't change his mind.

“When Brendan Rodgers first came, he said to me that I would be one of the ones he’d look to go out on loan. I took that in deep and felt I had to show this gaffer I want to stay here.

“I thought I did that in pre-season and it’s paid off for me. When we got back from the tour in America, he said to me he wanted me to be a big part of his plans.

Henderson obviously hasn't made the same impression yet.

[dww]

Wrote a more detailed post, but lost when when adding quote.

Anyway, of course BR had preconceived ideas before he joined, he said as much himself. He said that he knows what is needed to improve the first team and who isn't good enough, but I'm sure that wasn't set in stone and he isn't so stubborn that he wouldn't change his mind.

I'm sure that Rodgers is willing to change his mind, but human nature sometimes makes it hard. Hopefully having to prove himself will help Henderson but I tend to feel that bringing in Sahin and pushing henderson down the pecking order was a mistake both in terms of developing Henderson and evolving the teams style of play.

[RedReet]

That's fair enough, but the development of Liverpool has to come before the development of Henderson and if Rodgers thought Sahin would bring more to the team then that's his decision and time will tell if he's correct. TBF, it's up to Henderson to prove him wrong and he's had enough opportunities to do so. Thanks to cup competitions he's had about 8 starts and at this stage of the season that's plenty. He didn't seem any better off playing most weeks last season under Kenny with his full support. He has a few valid excuses obviously, being played out of position, knowing he's not considered good enough to be first choice but Jonjo was in a similar position and as he said he took it in and went out to prove otherwise.

FWIW, I like Henderson and think he could still have a future here. I just don't think he's done enough to convince Rodgers as there has been midfield places there to play for, especially if you believe he intends to play Gerrard up top.

[dww]

That's fair enough, but the development of Liverpool has to come before the development of Henderson and if Rodgers thought Sahin would bring more to the team then that's his decision and time will tell if he's correct. TBF, it's up to Henderson to prove him wrong and he's had enough opportunities to do so. Thanks to cup competitions he's had about 8 starts and at this stage of the season that's plenty. He didn't seem any better off playing most weeks last season under Kenny with his full support. He has a few valid excuses obviously, being played out of position, knowing he's not considered good enough to be first choice but Jonjo was in a similar position and as he said he took it in and went out to prove otherwise.

FWIW, I like Henderson and think he could still have a future here. I just don't think he's done enough to convince Rodgers as there has been midfield places there to play for, especially if you believe he intends to play Gerrard up top.

I really can't believe this is tree. Surely if it was and Gerrard was even vaguely willing to do it then we would have tried it this season.

On your other point - I can see that the team had to come first. I just think that he wrong decisions were made in that regard. No defensive midfielder and no striker but getting in Sahin seems a mistake to me. I can however see why Rodgers thought he had to get midfield right, given his system. It is pretty clear that he didn't and I suspect that the loan fee + wages of Sahin would have got us the type of forwards we were looking at.

[RedReet]

I argued that there is no chance he'll play Gerrard there too and I still don't believe he will, but he did say to Shelvey that he would and considering the lack of options up there this season you have to think that if he thought he had better options in midfield that he would at least have given it a go.

Sahin at the minute looks a poor fit, but are we seeing the real Sahin? I honestly haven't seen enough of him at Dortmund, people are saying he can play LB, DM, CM, AM and even LW but he doesn't seem that versatile to me. Early signs were good but he seems to be struggling a bit now. It's clear he is a talented player though and there is a reason Madrid bought him, so I think we definitely should have been interested. Whether it came at the expense of a more specialized player that we needed more, I don't know but if he found half the form that showed before his injury then you'd like to think he'd be more than good enough for our team.

[The Birdman]

Debatable mate. Would he have scored those goals at Norwich? Not sure he makes enough forward runs like Sahin. Anyhow, I think Henderson has been here over a year and should have done much better, whereas Sahin is still a newcomer adjusting to this league. If and when Sahin clicks, there is no doubt he will start ahead of Hendo IMO.

I think Henderson deeper alongside Allen with Gerrard permanently closer to Suarez would have resulted in us winning more games.
We would have been defensively sounder and offered more of an attacking threat.

Norwich is 1 game, what else has Sahin done? I happen to think he was a brilliant player but he is either being used wrong or has tossed it in because in most games he has been annonomous.

This is all with the benefit of hindsight and I was made up when we signed Sahin but he's been ****e so far