Centre Midfield Will Keep Struggling Until A Change In Tactics

[RedReet]

We beat QPR 1-0 on the last day of last season.

When I checked my phone this morning, I knew they didn't look right, had planned on double checking elsewhere once I got to work. Stupid Official.

[dww]

An article from the other side of the fence.



http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/10...ctical-genius/

There are some interesting points there but it mostly talks about the authors fantasy team mostly based on Rodgers selections when Coutinho and Johnson are out.

The idea of the Coutinho to the left as Enrique slots back to make a back 4 is interesting but I suspect fanciful.

[Norbs]

There are some interesting points there but it mostly talks about the authors fantasy team mostly based on Rodgers selections when Coutinho and Johnson are out.

The idea of the Coutinho to the left as Enrique slots back to make a back 4 is interesting but I suspect fanciful.

I suspect that it'd be Sturridge that slots left in that instance, and Suarez that slots right in the reverse with Coutinho braced to receive in the middle should we counter. I like the set up though, Toure and Skrtel can play right back, Sakho and Agger can play left back. Enrique can attack, as can Johnson.

It still doesn't address the two in the middle, Henderson and Gerrard and why they remain firmly planted to the spot with no movement at all.

[dizzycat]

This season is going to be defined by the results between the top six teams. 15 points and up from those and we will be in with a chance of being in the mix at the end of the season. Hopefully without Europe we can go all out in those games. My worry is that as Arn rightly points out is that the central midfield pairing could be overstretched. But I think we have already seen what's likely to happen and that is we will compact the defenders and midfield and play with quick counter attacks. The team have the capacity to absorb pressure and Gerrard's presence and experience becomes vital in this situation.

[Charly]

I have always had the feeling Lucas is not sweeping up far enough back (in comparison to how Hamman and Mascherano played in a very protected back five unit), and he either needs to sit further back in from of the back four, or get someone else in to do the job, push Lucas slightly further forward to where he is now, and then push Gerrard into a similar position to where he was when he sat behind Torres.

I think if we play the tactics we have been to be successful, we need two, more mobile midfielders than Gerrard and Lucas, and I dont think there are many around in our price range, who have the abilities they possess. I think a sight tinkering of the tactics we are using could sort it. But Brendan may have other ideas.

Do you fit the players into a system, or adapt the system to the players you have available? Brendan Rodgesr may not be the first stubborn manager we have ever had. I think the trick to success is being able to adapt to the situation, and I have faith that he can see the same things we can.

[badpiggy]

Interesting that that guy's favoured team has no Lucas... Had an interesting conversation today with a Red lunatic I work with. We agreed that Kolo could be, and maybe already is, our signing of the season - massive experience, a winner, ridiculous enthusiasm, energy and drive and a player who seems to have maintained an exceptional level of fitness in his years at city while not being a first choice regular. Personally I reckon he played a huge role in the dressing room and in Melwood in Suarez' seamless reassimilation to the first team - he's seen this **** a hundred times before and knows that LFC can and would have survived without Suarez. Best possible man to keep the young guys focussed.

We also agreed that our midfield seems to be our weak link at the moment. He blames Lucas, has read all the stats and reckons that all that proves is that Lucas is a better player when he's missing than when he's playing I sort of agree because I think that the stats show that Lucas has a huge amount of touches and, maybe, time on the ball but that his highly successful pass rate masks a conservative or limited passing range and that Lucas inspired attack doesn't really propel us into pressing the opposition. Put another way - when we seem to concede ground and possession in the later stages of games, Lucas doesn't seem to be able to reassert control over the game and drive us forward or even become integral to maintaining possession.

He blames SG for nothing and reckons our best CM parnership is Henderson/SG and would replace Henderson with Agger quite happily as he reckons he has the mobility to face the play and cover the ground to shield our back 3 (or 4) and has the skill, passing range and drive to move the play forward from a CM position and to keep possession and take the sting out of opposition attacks/possession too.

I can see the flaws in both the way I've explained this and probably in the general thinking/understanding too but it certainly is interesting. The Lucas divide exists outside this forum and the internet in general - genuine, astute Reds who've watched us for years are on both sides.

[Arn]

I don't think a Henderson Gerrard CM would work at all. Lucas is a must in every game when fit.

He is our only defensive specialist in CM.

Rafa played Masch higher up the pitch than Xabi in most games so it wasn't Masch that protected the back four. He wanted to win the ball back as early as possible and wanted Masch to protect Xabi as much as possible. That is why he played Masch higher up the pitch than Xabi.

Xabi played more or less as a QB.


------------------------Mignolet------------------
Johnson---------Toure-----------Agger------Enrique
-----------------------Lucas----------
------------Henderson----------Gerrard---------
-----------------------Coutinho----------------
-----------------Suarez------Sturridge-------------

IMO this is our best starting XI when everyone is fit.

[Fredo]

Think it all stems at how we keep the ball in the opposition's half for sustained periods. Doing that ensures we keep the pressure on the opposition and control the game. We haven't been doing it consistently enough this season, but it's all about a balancing act and we're improving on both fronts.

[spider-neil]

I think once Allen is back to full fitness we can ask Gerrard and Lucas to push themselves more for 60 minutes rather than both manage themselves to play the entire game and then sub them when they get tired meaning we a higher level of intensity for the full 90 minutes.

[calvoboy]

To use a great Shankly quote "Aye, here we are with problems at the top of the league".

The original article is a bit weak because of the graphics, but there is a fair point in there that our midfield is being asked to cover more ground than under previous managers. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, it's just that as Liverpool fans we've been used to seeing dominating midfields for many many years, and that's not the way we play now. I also wonder if the shots conceded thing is anything to do with us having a supreme shot stopper in goal? Maybe Rodgers is happy to concede shots from outside the box, as he's confident that Mignolet will stop them. We certainly seem to drop back with a defensive shell to prevent teams from getting into the box.

I want to see how this system works with Johnson and Coutinho back in it, as I suspect we will be much better at retaining possession then. The lack of proper wingbacks and a proper ten makes it difficult for the team to work through the midfield, and with us looking to go more direct to Suarez and Sturridge it stretches the game and exaggerates the gaps between midfield and attack.

[el matador]

The midfield problem is one which for me BR has never solved. You need to clearly identify what you want from your central midfield players and then make them do it.

we started with a midfield 3 with a 1-2 pivot, then when the penny dropped and we found we couldnt do that we switched to a 2-1 pivot. now we're realising that when coutinho plays as the 10, we leave the two midfielders exposed to runners.

allen cant play in a midfield two and neither can gerrard. That leaves 2 players lucas and henderson.

for me, until gerrard leaves CM we wont solve this issue but both lucas and henderson are capable of being a strong pairing there - but by no means the best.

[Arn]

The midfield problem is one which for me BR has never solved. You need to clearly identify what you want from your central midfield players and then make them do it.

we started with a midfield 3 with a 1-2 pivot, then when the penny dropped and we found we couldnt do that we switched to a 2-1 pivot. now we're realising that when coutinho plays as the 10, we leave the two midfielders exposed to runners.

allen cant play in a midfield two and neither can gerrard. That leaves 2 players lucas and henderson.

for me, until gerrard leaves CM we wont solve this issue but both lucas and henderson are capable of being a strong pairing there - but by no means the best.

A problem is of course that he never built up his own system that been a success. He clearly have a vision of how he want us to play but we don't know if he is able to build his vision or not.

That he changed the tactics and system a few times points to that he is still searching for the tactic and system that fit the squad best.

We will IMO see him continue to change tactic and system the next couple of months, after that he will settle on one system and tactic and play that in almost every game.

At the end of the season we will see if his system and tactics was a success or not.

[calvoboy]

Another important point is that this is only the second time that Rodgers build up his own system and tactics. It takes time to build a new tactic and a new system.

The first time was at Reading. He didn't build up the system at Swansea. He took over after Martinez that more or less play the same system and tactic.

I don't think that's quite right. For example, see the following section from an article written by a Swansea fan around the time that we hired Rodgers:

I noticed when Martinez became the frontrunner for Liverpool’s vacant managerial chair, some areas of the Liverpool support claimed they would prefer the Spaniard to Rodgers, as Rodgers had only achieved success with a system and squad he had inherited from the man dubbed ‘El Gaffer’ by the Jack Army. Rubbish. Although Martinez introduced the more ‘continental’ approach to our football, I believe that Swansea would never have achieved promotion to the Premier League under Martinez. We owe Martinez gratitude, but Brendan was the true architect behind the building of Swansea’s promotion to the Premier League and he evolved the playing style of the years previous.

We had many good times under Martinez. His style of football was centred around a much faster-paced passing game than the ‘tiki taka’ of Rodgers; I probably preferred watching the style of football under Martinez to the slower-paced ball hogging football of Rodgers’ Premier League Swansea. Ultimately though, Martinez displayed tactical naivety at times, especially defensively. Martinez also had a habit of leaving substitutions too late when things were not going the team’s way. Many winning positions were squandered under Martinez and a series of ‘should have been wins’ were downgraded to draws. Thank you Roberto, but Rodgers, following a Paulo Sousa interlude, made Swansea a far more efficient unit and still maintained the pass, pass, pass philosophy that had become Swansea’s trademark under Martinez.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2012/08/brendan-rodgers-from-the-tawe-to-the-mersey/

There is a similarity in philosophy, in that they both like to play passing football, but the system Rodgers implemented at Swansea was his own.

I'd agree that it's only the second time he's had to completely transform a team's approach to the game though.

[baitman]

tika taka has gone.
the pressing game is notably absent.
the counter attack game seems to be the flavour, but we then often lose the plot in the second half.

[el matador]

tika taka has gone.
the pressing game is notably absent.
the counter attack game seems to be the flavour, but we then often lose the plot in the second half.

to play the possession based game you need players who are patient on the ball and our two best players gerrard and suarez have ants in the pants syndrome.

both think that whenever they get the ball theyve got to produce so they take risks. this is obviously at odds with what rodgers wanted when he first took over.

its been hard for BR but he knows its about results and we're getting them with a style of football thats not really a style as such. its not pure counter attack, its not possession domination but a mixture of all these.