Southampton Post Match

[CAD]

My argument was that your point was a load of rubbish. Complete made up nonsense. If it's so easy to deliver a good set piece how come no one even equalled him in assists let alone beat him? Theres far bigger teams than us in the league too to knock headers in from set plays.

And yes I'm not too bothered if he costs us a few goals by being ****, slow, a declined legend, a player we cant finish top 4 with or whatever other crap you want to say about him. The facts (as you like to talk about) are that he's still one of the most productive central midfielders in world football. And he's nowhere near as bad defensively as you make out anyway.

ahh, we disagree. Everything I wrote is a load of rubbish. Awesome

[calvoboy]

The thing is here your opinion on Gerrard is clearly in the minority, now I'd agree he's not quite the player he once was BUT the levels he set back then were outrageously high and even now he's still one of the top players in the PL. His peers in the game believe so, the manager of Liverpool believes so and his performances for most part of last season back that theory up.

Gerrard doesn't have too many more seasons at the top and we need to and I believe are planning for the future without him playing game after game for us but at present he will and rightly still be one of the first names on the team sheet when fit.

The goals that SG provides and the assists we get from him would come regardsless if someone else kicked the ball. Maybe to a lesser extend but they would come - agree? Someone would surely score on penalties, maybe not 10 of 11 but to some extend - agree?

PS: I think that losing Suarez and 31 goals, 12 assists and 7 penalties won will CERTAINLY leave us needing all the goals we can get this season. That's 7 of Gerrards goals gone right there to start with btw!

But by your logic surely someone else will win those penalties and make those assists? Maybe not all of them, but to some extent...

[G]

If it were me I'd sign a proper DM and push Stevie into the hole behind Sturridge. I think he still can offer far more in an offensive respect than he can in a DM role. He could negate the loss of Suarez more than anybody else in our squad I think. Maybe that's just me pining for the Gerrard of old. The fact he wanders forward a fair bit seems to suggest he still wants to be at the sharp end too rather than be disciplined as he should be in the DM role. He does go missing a fair bit when it comes to tracking runners, I said it a few times early last season too. But that's how it is these days, he starts seasons slowly, has done for the last 3. His performances in the second half of the season in that role were excellent IMO.

[CAD]

But by your logic surely someone else will win those penalties and make those assists? Maybe not all of them, but to some extent...

No other team had anywhere near our number of crosses or corners last season, right? Of course someone would get some assists from those freekicks/corners and score on the penalties. Maybe it would be less - probably would - but that's not the interesting part at all IMO.

Getting the right balance with a correctly schooled DM/HM like Khedira (just to name one) would bring much more to the team than the freekicks SG drops into the box.

We will get hammered by City next Monday if we play like we did Sunday. I think that without Suarez, Gerrard is a luxury we cant afford.

[CAD]

Aside from being sexist and crude, this analogy makes absolutely no sense to me

That's all you have to add - says it all really. You are a ****e poster, aren't you? Or is this the exemption that confirms the rule?

[Pablo]

That's all you have to add - says it all really. You are a ****e poster, aren't you? Or is this the exemption that confirms the rule?

What a random personal attack

I think others have already taken your post to pieces to be honest. Your criticism of Gerrard is so over the top and extreme that I mostly just find it hilarious. You're amusing at least, I'll give you that.

[Red_Polo]

Aside from being sexist and crude, this analogy makes absolutely no sense to me

The above seems like a reasonable response to a ****ty and unintelligible expression to me.

[Rich]

What a random personal attack

I think others have already taken your post to pieces to be honest. Your criticism of Gerrard is so over the top and extreme that I mostly just find it hilarious. You're amusing at least, I'll give you that.

Chin up Pabs, don't take it to heart.

[Red_Polo]

That's all you have to add - says it all really. You are a ****e poster, aren't you? Or is this the exemption that confirms the rule?

What makes you think you are well placed to dictate the terms of how and what people should debate on here? It's not even your thread, let alone forum.

[dom9]

OK, my thoughts on Gerrard for what it is worth (which is absolutely nothing).

He's not the player he once was. Yep. It's true.

Rodgers, quite rightly, in my opinion, has recognised this and done something about it. Rather that living in denial hoping that Gerrard occasionally relives past glories in his old rampaging position and style, or rather than chopping and changing the team by playing him occasionally, he has redefined Gerrard's role within the team (although crucially, not his role within the squad) to accommodate him.

In some ways, it is not so different to Rafa playing him out wide on the right for a couple of seasons. Or Rafa playing him as a second attacker for many games. Neither of these were the box to box, buccaneering positions that the Gerrard of Houllier's time would have been asked to play in. These were disciplined positions for the good of the team, where the rampaging was restricted to causing bedlam within the opposition, whilst providing a steady base around him. Many people lamented this tactical innovation, not least Gerrard himself.

Time has passed, Gerrard can no longer make forays, sprints and runs to cause mayhem in the opposition defence.

But does that mean the end of Gerrard? Of course not. His passing is still as good as anybody in the league. His leadership in a team of inexperienced youngsters is crucial. He can defend better than most midfielders. He can dictate play. He can influence. He can take free kicks and penalties better than Beckham. If he wasn't Gerrard, we would be lauding him for his abilities. Many of us do anyway.

It was generally accepted by many seasoned observers that Gerrard had his best season in years last year. After a slow start, he was exceptional, in a team of exceptional performers.

So in short, I don't see the problem.

[Pablo]

We just need to be smarter going forward about picking and choosing what games he plays in. There's probably going to be certain games going forward where we will be better off with a more mobile three in there. He'll need to drop out then.

That's natural though given his age but to write him off like CAD does is nonsensical and comes across as a bizarre, personal attack.

[CAD]

OK, my thoughts on Gerrard for what it is worth (which is absolutely nothing).

He's not the player he once was. Yep. It's true.

Rodgers, quite rightly, in my opinion, has recognised this and done something about it. Rather that living in denial hoping that Gerrard occasionally relives past glories in his old rampaging position and style, or rather than chopping and changing the team by playing him occasionally, he has redefined Gerrard's role within the team (although crucially, not his role within the squad) to accommodate him.

In some ways, it is not so different to Rafa playing him out wide on the right for a couple of seasons. Or Rafa playing him as a second attacker for many games. Neither of these were the box to box, buccaneering positions that the Gerrard of Houllier's time would have been asked to play in. These were disciplined positions for the good of the team, where the rampaging was restricted to causing bedlam within the opposition, whilst providing a steady base around him. Many people lamented this tactical innovation, not least Gerrard himself.

Time has passed, Gerrard can no longer make forays, sprints and runs to cause mayhem in the opposition defence.

But does that mean the end of Gerrard? Of course not. His passing is still as good as anybody in the league. His leadership in a team of inexperienced youngsters is crucial. He can defend better than most midfielders. He can dictate play. He can influence. He can take free kicks and penalties better than Beckham. If he wasn't Gerrard, we would be lauding him for his abilities. Many of us do anyway.

It was generally accepted by many seasoned observers that Gerrard had his best season in years last year. After a slow start, he was exceptional, in a team of exceptional performers.

So in short, I don't see the problem.

Good post.

First of: My opinion about Gerrard is not a vendetta. It's not meant to be abusive. I'm doing all I can to be as nice about it as possible.

I think Suarez made everybody look good last season. He gave us an unprecedented amount of freekicks on the final 1/3. Unprecedented amount of penalties. Even an unprecedented amount of corners.

No player has ever scored 31 goals in the PL without adding penalties. Let alone 12 assists!

Gerrards charisma and legendary status was of great importance - that's a given. He is an icon and a model professional. He played a big part in regards to spirit etc.

I don't agree with the the bold part. I think he is an under par defender.

He supplies good crossing but the dictation of the game I don't find impressive either. I think he was badly exposed during the world cup. No impact and no dictation.

The new trend with him dropping down between the CB's during build up will hurt us imo. We are missing a vital player in the engine room to play the ball up to when he drops that deep. It will be easy to defend against. The opposition will analyse and figure out to cope with SG dropping that deep - IMHO of course. Further more the impact he makes on the ball in that position is minor. They will look for the long ball (obviously) so it will be covered 99% of the time. He will be missing a player at defensive midfield to link up with and we will be out numbered on the center. Does he drop that deep because he is uncomfortable with getting the ball with a player in the back? I don't know but I don't like the trend.

I think that there are obvious issues when we are off the ball. It will be even more exposed this season without Suarez. Little or no pressure from the defensive midfield will leave loads of space for the opposition - like the Saints goal against us or like the entire 2nd half, right? With Henderson the only one running and a dead engine room. Zero movement or pressure. Horrid and stale.

The real issues will appear when/if our defensive record doesn't improve and we have no Suarez to cover the cracks. In the curernt system its hard to see the DM Combo that can be dynamic enough. Can/Allen?! Can/Henderson perhaps? We need players who can cover a lot of ground at DM imo and track back when needed. Gerrard is awful at tracking back. Even Allen is better. Lucas is far better at tracking players. Can must be as well?

I think we will see the DM exposed badly this season -starting Monday. With the players available it will be hard to correct.

So in short - I do see a problem. We will see soon enough who is on the money - I hope you are

[dom9]

Good post.

Thanks for the approval.

I pretty much disagree with the rest of your post, so we shall agree to disagree

[CAD]

What a random personal attack

I think others have already taken your post to pieces to be honest. Your criticism of Gerrard is so over the top and extreme that I mostly just find it hilarious. You're amusing at least, I'll give you that.

You think it's taken to pieces? They have hardly addressed it ffs.

Christ on a bike. (Or is that too offending too for the PC guard??)

[CAD]

Thanks for the approval.

I pretty much disagree with the rest of your post, so we shall agree to disagree

absolutely. We will see soon enough.