New Manager [Klopp Watch]

[Nicey]

https://twitter.com/mootaz_lfc/statu...86953900949504

**** ME KLOPP IS COMING ... SWEET BABY ****ING JESUS

[Fivex]

At least it's not Keith from Procurement.

[Maxiedge]

ffs Redmike ffs

[I, Ravel Morrison]

Mootaz doesn't appear to be an anagram for Graeme Kelly.

[DannyMan2006]

I think it will always be found that the most important aspect to any set of tactics or formation is the players. You can't carry out anything if either the players aren't capable, or aren't motivated to do so.

Gegenpressing is not a startegy that's been found out. I think the error last year was that there was too much rotation of players early on in the season due to injuries and the new guys weren't up to speed. I think as the season progressed they turned it around as players came back.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out over here though. Particularly early doors, it's quite a lot for the players to learn and they have literally no settling in period. It's games back to back due to the Europa League & cup competitions. In addition the players may not be fit enough to carry out his vision. Pressing of any kind is dangerous when you carry players who don't know what's expected of them, Gegenpressing even more so. If even one player neglects his duty an opposition team will carve straight through you as most of your team will be committed high up field.

In many ways it could be like watching a Rodgers team circa July 2014 early doors. Players pressing but not working as a group, hence it just becomes a complete waste of time.

[Kenneth]

Adam Bate sounds like a boring ****ing bellend.

[Buzzo]

I think it will always be found that the most important aspect to any set of tactics or formation is the players. You can't carry out anything if either the players aren't capable, or aren't motivated to do so.

Gegenpressing is not a startegy that's been found out. I think the error last year was that there was too much rotation of players early on in the season due to injuries and the new guys weren't up to speed. I think as the season progressed they turned it around as players came back.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out over here though. Particularly early doors, it's quite a lot for the players to learn and they have literally no settling in period. It's games back to back due to the Europa League & cup competitions. In addition the players may not be fit enough to carry out his vision. Pressing of any kind is dangerous when you carry players who don't know what's expected of them, Gegenpressing even more so. If even one player neglects his duty an opposition team will carve straight through you as most of your team will be committed high up field.

In many ways it could be like watching a Rodgers team circa July 2014 early doors. Players pressing but not working as a group, hence it just becomes a complete waste of time.

Thats the one ******* of not having had a pre-season with the new manager (surely Klopp). He has next to no time to implement anything at all. I wonder if he will just tweak a few things gradually moving towards his preferred formation, or tear it up straight away and go with a new style.

Either way it is going to be fascinating how the season progresses.

I'd mentally written it off, assuming we'd suffer Rodgeball until at least Christmas, so anything that Jurgen can achieve is going to be a bonus.

[Resu]

At least it's not Keith from Procurement.

Procurement, isn`t that really another word for the Committee?

[Hemingway]

Rise and Fall of Gegenpressing

...This counter pressing, which is pressing the opponent like a shockwave or in other words, like a blitzkrieg, was neither new nor revolutionary....

First of all, the concept of the press is never sufficient to become a strategy on its own. It may look like a strategy in Dortmund's case, but there is always another sneaky detail hiding behind the visual. In this case, not surprisingly though, what smells like the center of Dortmund's strategy is a familiar one, counter attacking. At this point, frustratingly the whole strategy loses its originality....

Nonetheless, this season the whole strategy of Jurgen Klopp collapsed. Of course, injuries and their losses in the transfer market affected the team's performance, but more importantly, Dortmund's opponents figured out how to stop them....

While Dortmund panicked and tried to attack as fast as they could, they imbalanced their game at the same time and Monchengladbach made the few opportunities they got count. Well, if you insist on playing fast and vertically against a defensive-minded opponent and if your opponent is ready to wait for your mistakes, your are probably going to give a lot of chances to the opponent. ...

...Therefore, Dortmund and Klopp has to acknowledge their strategy's inability to surprise opponents and dominate the game. Gegenpressing was cool once upon a time, but it just does not count anymore.

http://www.dailysabah.com/sports/2015/04/13/rise-and-fall-of-gegenpressing

This is self-contradictory dribble.

So on the one hand, gegenpressing is actually not at all a new thing - it's just pressing and counter attacking, so actually there's nothing special about it. In fact, it's unsophisticated, derivative. Oh, but also it took six years for opponents to figure out how to stop this old and derivative strategy. It only worked because of surprise, even though everyone's seen it before anyway and were seeing it rip up the league for four years. Now, despite being a staple of the game for decades, pressing and countering is totally out of fashion and doesn't work anymore.

How can it be both a long-held, unoriginal tradition and a fad at the same time?

How did it take six ****ing years for a team to think, 'Oh, what if we just let them have the ball?' That would imply that the rest of the time the opposite was true - that even bottom-half teams, the kind they trounced on the regular all of six months before suddenly their entire philosophy became bankrupt, were coming to the Westfalenstadion and not sitting back. What mid-table team goes to Dortmund in their pomp and thinks, 'Yeah, we'll take the game to them!' It's absurd to think anyone just figured that out last season. It would've been obvious the first time you saw them play. But because of those injuries and losses in the transfer market that the author just wipes away, and some bad luck, finally that strategy started to work. For a few months. Oh no.

Even when he talks about the Gladbach game. Gladbach made use of the few chances they had, but also they had a lot of chances. Maybe he's just a bad writer and meant something else, but I don't know what his point is. Is it that you give up a lot of chances? Or is it that you can get beat by a clinical team that sets up the right way? Because those are two very different things.

Also: 'the neo-total football strategy.'

I've been over this before, but: Klopp's last year at Dortmund was not that bad. Yes, his teams struggled for a few months that coincided with a lot of injuries. He should've had more answers. But the performances were not dire. Teams did not "figure them out." They were getting as many shots as they were before; those shots were the same quality as before; they were putting as many of them on target as they were before. They were also allowing as few shots as before, not higher quality, not more on target. They didn't turn into Chelsea this season. The performances were there. For a few months, the results weren't.

There may be something to the idea that Klopp burns his teams out. Around the sixth year at Mainz things fell apart, in much the same way: good performances, bad results. Same at Dortmund. He may have a shelf life. ****, he may not even work out here, for a lot of reasons. But that's revisionism at best.

[DannyMan2006]

Thats the one ******* of not having had a pre-season with the new manager (surely Klopp). He has next to no time to implement anything at all. I wonder if he will just tweak a few things gradually moving towards his preferred formation, or tear it up straight away and go with a new style.

Either way it is going to be fascinating how the season progresses.

I'd mentally written it off, assuming we'd suffer Rodgeball until at least Christmas, so anything that Jurgen can achieve is going to be a bonus.

It's exciting and easy to get carried away with loads proclaiming we could win the league and that 4th would be the minimum. But whilst I don't want to dampen any spirits and any thing is possible, the reality is that most strategy stake an inordinate amount of work to get them working to a high level.

He will be stuck in the middle. He will have little time between games and will have to weigh up whether to tire the players out by scheduling double sessions all the time to get them up to speed, or following a normal schedule and risk having no one pick up his tactics.

On top of that, our upcoming fixture list is very unforgiving. Spurs away as a first fixture is a tough one as they are riding high atm. It won't just be a case of Klopp coming in & shaking his fist with suddenly everything being right in the world.

Personally, I had no hope we'd finish top 4 under Rodgers and a change was needed. Even if this season remains a train wreck, Klopp gets a good 7 months to work out the squad he has available and then starts next summer knowing where players are needed ready to have a real crack next season.

[dww]

I think it will always be found that the most important aspect to any set of tactics or formation is the players. You can't carry out anything if either the players aren't capable, or aren't motivated to do so.

Gegenpressing is not a startegy that's been found out. I think the error last year was that there was too much rotation of players early on in the season due to injuries and the new guys weren't up to speed. I think as the season progressed they turned it around as players came back.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out over here though. Particularly early doors, it's quite a lot for the players to learn and they have literally no settling in period. It's games back to back due to the Europa League & cup competitions. In addition the players may not be fit enough to carry out his vision. Pressing of any kind is dangerous when you carry players who don't know what's expected of them, Gegenpressing even more so. If even one player neglects his duty an opposition team will carve straight through you as most of your team will be committed high up field.

In many ways it could be like watching a Rodgers team circa July 2014 early doors. Players pressing but not working as a group, hence it just becomes a complete waste of time.

The worry is that the collapse happened because you need a very particular blend of players all of whom buy into the system. It is hard to set up and prone to disruption through injury. We've had several seasons where Rodgers has at times come up with systems that work only for them to be proven to be fragile in one way or another. I worry that the Klopp approach will prove similar.

I think in Henderson, Can, Milner and Ings we have some players suitable to pressing systems but others (Lucas, Skrtel, Benteke) who look horribly ill suited.

[Assuming Klopp is appointed] To me he has no choice but to go all out to get his system up and running ASAP. It's not like we have a mid-season break to get things organized. We may have to suck up some poor results whilst that happens. If other teams continue their inconsistency then that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

[Fosterbloke]

This is self-contradictory dribble.



So on the one hand, gegenpressing is actually not at all a new thing - it's just pressing and counter attacking, so actually there's nothing special about it. In fact, it's unsophisticated, derivative. Oh, but also it took six years for opponents to figure out how to stop this old and derivative strategy. It only worked because of surprise, even though everyone's seen it before anyway and were seeing it rip up the league for four years. Now, despite being a staple of the game for decades, pressing and countering is totally out of fashion and doesn't work anymore.



How can it be both a long-held, unoriginal tradition and a fad at the same time?



How did it take six ****ing years for a team to think, 'Oh, what if we just let them have the ball?' That would imply that the rest of the time the opposite was true - that even bottom-half teams, the kind they trounced on the regular all of six months before suddenly their entire philosophy became bankrupt, were coming to the Westfalenstadion and not sitting back. What mid-table team goes to Dortmund in their pomp and thinks, 'Yeah, we'll take the game to them!' It's absurd to think anyone just figured that out last season. It would've been obvious the first time you saw them play. But because of those injuries and losses in the transfer market that the author just wipes away, and some bad luck, finally that strategy started to work. For a few months. Oh no.



Even when he talks about the Gladbach game. Gladbach made use of the few chances they had, but also they had a lot of chances. Maybe he's just a bad writer and meant something else, but I don't know what his point is. Is it that you give up a lot of chances? Or is it that you can get beat by a clinical team that sets up the right way? Because those are two very different things.



Also: 'the neo-total football strategy.'



I've been over this before, but: Klopp's last year at Dortmund was not that bad. Yes, his teams struggled for a few months that coincided with a lot of injuries. He should've had more answers. But the performances were not dire. Teams did not "figure them out." They were getting as many shots as they were before; those shots were the same quality as before; they were putting as many of them on target as they were before. They were also allowing as few shots as before, not higher quality, not more on target. They didn't turn into Chelsea this season. The performances were there. For a few months, the results weren't.



There may be something to the idea that Klopp burns his teams out. Around the sixth year at Mainz things fell apart, in much the same way: good performances, bad results. Same at Dortmund. He may have a shelf life. ****, he may not even work out here, for a lot of reasons. But that's revisionism at best.

Great post

[DannyMan2006]

The worry is that the collapse happened because you need a very particular blend of players all of whom buy into the system. It is hard to set up and prone to disruption through injury. We've had several seasons where Rodgers has at times come up with systems that work only for them to be proven to be fragile in one way or another. I worry that the Klopp approach will prove similar.

I think in Henderson, Can, Milner and Ings we have some players suitable to pressing systems but others (Lucas, Skrtel, Benteke) who look horribly ill suited.

[Assuming Klopp is appointed] To me he has no choice but to go all out to get his system up and running ASAP. It's not like we have a mid-season break to get things organized. We may have to suck up some poor results whilst that happens. If other teams continue their inconsistency then that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

IMO we have a squad of good players but the individuals all fit different styles and formations. I think it's hard to see us not having a big turn around in players this summer, but that has happened every year with Brendan anyway and would most likely be the same result if any new manager was appointed.

What I think we will see is as you said, Klopp pushing his system right from the off and inevitable tough defeats as we learn. What we do have here though is a hard working group of players who will always put in a shift, so in that sense I think we will adapt and learn as the season progresses. I think by January we will be ready to kick on what with the easier end to the season and a squad more used to the new system.

We just have to hope we can hang tough for a while and stay in contention. Hopefully we get a bit of new manager luck to carry us through the initial tough set of fixtures.

[Fosterbloke]

Somewhere, Balotelli is ****ting his pants.

[Bender]

[ame="https://youtu.be/W0BltxDJkDc"]Jurgen Klopp slap to Marian Sarr - YouTube[/ame]