Welcome to Liverpool FC, Federico Chiesa Cavaliere

[memzey]

[Tatterdemalion]

No. And **** you for saying we should. I bet you torture kittens in your spare time when you aren't offended by/offending oppo footy fans.

Actually I prefer torturing fellow fans who don't agree with me.

[memzey]

ok, let's move on!

No. And **** you for saying we should. I bet you torture kittens in your spare time when you aren't offended by/offending oppo footy fans.

[Tatterdemalion]

That's fair enough actually, good point.

On reflection, I think "**** the idea that we should change our chant because of some made up bollocks" is a more accurate representation of my meaning than "**** Juve and anyone else who doesn’t like it".

ok, let's move on!

[memzey]

Come on now, you led into a debate that was being rationally held with 'my opinion matters more, so **** everyone else.'

What exactly did you expect?

That's fair enough actually, good point.

On reflection, I think "**** the idea that we should change our chant because of some made up bollocks" is a more accurate representation of my meaning than "**** Juve and anyone else who doesn’t like it".

[memzey]

No sense to you :thumbsup:

Or, apparently, the 60,000 fans at anfield on Friday, not to mention the +1,000,000 at the parade, where it was probably the most sung song. You must know something the rest of us have missed. Lucky we have you here to set us straight

[Tatterdemalion]

Perhaps. Perhaps if you’d engaged me in a dialogue rather than giving it the “top fan” the meaning would have been clear by now but here we are.

Come on now, you led into a debate that was being rationally held with 'my opinion matters more, so **** everyone else.'

What exactly did you expect?

[memzey]

Perhaps you could have said some of that initially rather than jumping into the debate with 'your opinion is different to mine, so **** anyone (including fellow fans) who doesn't agree'.

Perhaps. Perhaps if you’d engaged me in a dialogue rather than giving it the “top fan” the meaning would have been clear by now but here we are.

[BG1973]

As mentioned, it has nothing to do with Heysel and has zero relevance to that tragic disaster.



Yes. Yes, exactly.



If it has nothing to do with Heysel the whole point is completely irrelevant. We aren't singing about the tragedy, we are singing about a player that played for them but now plays for us. That's it. If that's enough to make you want to change or ditch a chant because some people might, in theory, be offended or claim as such, then where do you draw the line? Would you be happy if every other team's appointed fan reps reviewed and approved our songs so we could be sure they were left warm and fuzzy by the lyrics? It's a nonsense.



I doubt any sane person has. There are however, many offense farmers out there looking for something to object to but are we really going to let them set our agenda? That would be a "no" from me.



No. I'm saying it's ****ing magnificent and should be belted out with great gusto whenever the opportunity arises. Happy to have cleared that up for you



Before that article was published, as far as I can tell, nobody mentioned it. This leads me to believe it caused no offense. A pile on now should not lead to a change at our end as that would only be giving in to a cynical crowd movement and sacrificing our own agency as a fan base. Again, that's a "no" from me.



100%.



Our fanbase is decent enough not to sing a song that would mock that tragedy. The chant has nothing to do with Heysel. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Before this article came out no one mentioned it. My suspicion is that anyone playing it up now is manufacturing offense for whatever other reason. Ultimately, if the chant does not besmirch our decency as a fan base (and it does not) why should we let any of the joy of our support be sucked away to please others? Makes no sense at all.

No sense to you :thumbsup:

[Tatterdemalion]

As mentioned, it has nothing to do with Heysel and has zero relevance to that tragic disaster.



Yes. Yes, exactly.



If it has nothing to do with Heysel the whole point is completely irrelevant. We aren't singing about the tragedy, we are singing about a player that played for them but now plays for us. That's it. If that's enough to make you want to change or ditch a chant because some people might, in theory, be offended or claim as such, then where do you draw the line? Would you be happy if every other team's appointed fan reps reviewed and approved our songs so we could be sure they were left warm and fuzzy by the lyrics? It's a nonsense.



I doubt any sane person has. There are however, many offense farmers out there looking for something to object to but are we really going to let them set our agenda? That would be a "no" from me.



No. I'm saying it's ****ing magnificent and should be belted out with great gusto whenever the opportunity arises. Happy to have cleared that up for you



Before that article was published, as far as I can tell, nobody mentioned it. This leads me to believe it caused no offense. A pile on now should not lead to a change at our end as that would only be giving in to a cynical crowd movement and sacrificing our own agency as a fan base. Again, that's a "no" from me.



100%.



Our fanbase is decent enough not to sing a song that would mock that tragedy. The chant has nothing to do with Heysel. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Before this article came out no one mentioned it. My suspicion is that anyone playing it up now is manufacturing offense for whatever other reason. Ultimately, if the chant does not besmirch our decency as a fan base (and it does not) why should we let any of the joy of our support be sucked away to please others? Makes no sense at all.

Perhaps you could have said some of that initially rather than jumping into the debate with 'your opinion is different to mine, so **** anyone (including fellow fans) who doesn't agree'.

[memzey]

I guess in this context it would be a fan who put their own football club so far first that they don't care that it may seriously offend a rival fanbase and in particular the families of the 39 dead and approx 600 injured.

As mentioned, it has nothing to do with Heysel and has zero relevance to that tragic disaster.

Just so we can sing a song about a fairly insignificant player for us.

Yes. Yes, exactly.

I doubt whoever penned the song meant any reference to Heysel but as a club with our own tragic past it should be completely irrelevant. .

But apparently not

If it has nothing to do with Heysel the whole point is completely irrelevant. We aren't singing about the tragedy, we are singing about a player that played for them but now plays for us. That's it. If that's enough to make you want to change or ditch a chant because some people might, in theory, be offended or claim as such, then where do you draw the line? Would you be happy if every other team's appointed fan reps reviewed and approved our songs so we could be sure they were left warm and fuzzy by the lyrics? It's a nonsense.

Has anyone actually been offended or upset by it?

I doubt any sane person has. There are however, many offense farmers out there looking for something to object to but are we really going to let them set our agenda? That would be a "no" from me.

Are you saying its fine?

No. I'm saying it's ****ing magnificent and should be belted out with great gusto whenever the opportunity arises. Happy to have cleared that up for you

I'm trying to work out if this is a problem in the real world, or only speculatively a problem on paper. If Juventus, or Juventus fan groups have raised this and asked us to stop, or expressed hurt or offense, then its an actual issue and the song should be changed. If they haven't I couldn't give two ****s about any of it. My question was to work out what we're dealing with.

Before that article was published, as far as I can tell, nobody mentioned it. This leads me to believe it caused no offense. A pile on now should not lead to a change at our end as that would only be giving in to a cynical crowd movement and sacrificing our own agency as a fan base. Again, that's a "no" from me.

This "problem" came from Tony Evans, not Juventus.

100%.

With our history we should be decent enough to foresee issues before they happen and this falls into that category.

Our fanbase is decent enough not to sing a song that would mock that tragedy. The chant has nothing to do with Heysel. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Before this article came out no one mentioned it. My suspicion is that anyone playing it up now is manufacturing offense for whatever other reason. Ultimately, if the chant does not besmirch our decency as a fan base (and it does not) why should we let any of the joy of our support be sucked away to please others? Makes no sense at all.

[BG1973]

[QUOTE=Kenneth;3969159]I'm trying to work out if this is a problem in the real world, or only speculatively a problem on paper. If Juventus, or Juventus fan groups have raised this and asked us to stop, or expressed hurt or offense, then its an actual issue and the song should be changed. If they haven't I couldn't give two ****s about any of it. My question was to work out what we're

With our history we should be decent enough to foresee issues before they happen and this falls into that category.

[labourRed]

I'm trying to work out if this is a problem in the real world, or only speculatively a problem on paper. If Juventus, or Juventus fan groups have raised this and asked us to stop, or expressed hurt or offense, then its an actual issue and the song should be changed. If they haven't I couldn't give two ****s about any of it. My question was to work out what we're dealing with.

This "problem" came from Tony Evans, not Juventus.

As the Athletic stated we did a friendship mosaic for them in 2005 to which they turned their back.

In terms of Chiesa, he was well treated by the fans, not by the management. But he left on good terms (he was frozen out).

[Kenneth]

I'm trying to work out if this is a problem in the real world, or only speculatively a problem on paper. If Juventus, or Juventus fan groups have raised this and asked us to stop, or expressed hurt or offense, then its an actual issue and the song should be changed. If they haven't I couldn't give two ****s about any of it. My question was to work out what we're dealing with.

[BG1973]

Are you saying its fine?