Florian Wirtz - Welcome to LFC

[Irishnev]

I had started replying to this yesterday, but seeing as I'm not one of those people (I don't think), I didn't finish.

I'm not sure who has called for Szobo to be dropped, but seeing as I've already been quoted and I've no doubt will be quoted again if Wirtz does get moved from AM, I will clarify my point.

I'm fairly certain I've never said Dom should be dropped, I'm a huge fan of his. However, going by Slot's and Witrz comments (ie Wirtz was bought to play no.10), I made the assumption that Wirtz would play no.10.

In terms of dropping Szobo, I said that wouldn't necessarily be the case, he'll cover other positions as well as AM at times and because we only have 5 players covering 3 positions, he'll get plenty of game time. So far he's played every game.

My gut instinct though was that if Slot had everyone available for Charity Shield, then Szobo would be the one to miss out, based purely on the fact that the player coming in, plays in his position from last year. That wouldn't be the case every game, but for teh first game someone would have to miss out and my guess is it would have been him.

Despite Wirtz being a famous, world class player, I never once pretended to know much about him or how he plays. Reports suggested he put in a shift defensively, so I wasn't as concerned as others about losing that side of things if Dom doesn't play. Slot and the stats team know exactly what Dom brings to the table and should have a fairly good idea what we'll gain and what we'll lose replacing him with Wirtz, so who am I to argue? They may well be wrong, he might end up playing LW, he might play false 9 if Isak doesn't join, or it may not work out at all. There are plenty of examples of players not suiting the position they were signed for, Lucas being one, Didi and Gini changing style from box to box players, or Joelinton being sh*t as a forward for Newcastle. Likewise other quality players don't work out for one reason or another, Naby, Thiago, Veron, Poulsen, it can happen.

So I've no idea if Wirtz will be a success there, if he will be better or worse than Szobo. I just didn't think we'd be changing formation to accommodate him as some suggested, nor did I think we had planned on playing him LW or CF, on the evidence available. I also didn't think that Dom would lose out too much at his expense, I suspected we'd see a lot more rotation this year and game time shared fairly equally.

So far it's hard to tell what the plan was/is as we've been dealing with injuries and suspensions and as I've said in other replies, it's far to early for anyone to draw any accurate conclusions on what has and what hasn't worked at this stage.

This was aimed more at Twitter tbh, as Dom was never in the strongest 11 when randomers were picking teams

We need a big squad and there’ll be games for them all, if I do think if he had a fully fit squad and a CL final then Dom starts

[Charly]

Klopp had Coutinho who was incredibly effective in that system.

Good point, although Klopp imherrited him. Id say we were very effective atracking wise but a shambles defensively(no proper DM) under Rogers. Coutinho played very well, and there is no reason Wirtz cant get to those levels, but Klopp preferred and won stuff with a ****ing boring shade of beige. Thats not to say we cant make it work. Wirtz is clearly a fantastic footballer, but I think Dom.leading the press from midfield is more effective at the moment, especially with our defensive frailty

I just dont think he is quite ready, and considering Arsenal are next and that our team is a bit lightweight at the moment,Id pick Dom to start and bring Wirtz on when their defence is looking tired.

Ultimately we just need to be patient, as Im sure he will reach tbe heights. Took Henry a season to adapt to tbe Premier League from memory.

I think the worry is we persist with him and he fails to match the perceptions of his pricetag then he might start to feel that pressure.

[Yozza]

Everyones a whipping boy except for my boy ekitike

Stupid bleached hair with his man-labubu

[vlahka]

Everyones a whipping boy except for my boy ekitike

[danperkins]

Standard Mo for sure - doesn't **** all for the entire game and then gets his token goal or assist to pad the stat sheet

OK

So Salah is the new whipping boy


got it

[The_weatherman]

I think it's fait to remember that Florian just turned 22 last May, he's young in a new league, comes in a grieving dressing room which has had lots of changes and loads of pressure on him as well, partly due to his price, and the opening three games are very difficult.

[Harv]

A goal and an assist in two games is waaaay off his usual standards...

Standard Mo for sure - doesn't **** all for the entire game and then gets his token goal or assist to pad the stat sheet

[RedReet]

I’m not worried about him but the shape needs practice

Equally with Kerkez, his role seems v different to what saw make the TotY, he seems to be holding in a 3 as opposed to getting wide. V odd but we’ve not had the chance to get our full midfield fit.

People who think Szozbo drops out must be seeing something different to me. He’s the dynamo of the side and is a must starter with Mac, Grav was more like second half of last season form. Teams know to sit off him so he can’t spin and drive away, having said that we looked much better in transition last night

I had started replying to this yesterday, but seeing as I'm not one of those people (I don't think), I didn't finish.

I'm not sure who has called for Szobo to be dropped, but seeing as I've already been quoted and I've no doubt will be quoted again if Wirtz does get moved from AM, I will clarify my point.

I'm fairly certain I've never said Dom should be dropped, I'm a huge fan of his. However, going by Slot's and Witrz comments (ie Wirtz was bought to play no.10), I made the assumption that Wirtz would play no.10.

In terms of dropping Szobo, I said that wouldn't necessarily be the case, he'll cover other positions as well as AM at times and because we only have 5 players covering 3 positions, he'll get plenty of game time. So far he's played every game.

My gut instinct though was that if Slot had everyone available for Charity Shield, then Szobo would be the one to miss out, based purely on the fact that the player coming in, plays in his position from last year. That wouldn't be the case every game, but for teh first game someone would have to miss out and my guess is it would have been him.

Despite Wirtz being a famous, world class player, I never once pretended to know much about him or how he plays. Reports suggested he put in a shift defensively, so I wasn't as concerned as others about losing that side of things if Dom doesn't play. Slot and the stats team know exactly what Dom brings to the table and should have a fairly good idea what we'll gain and what we'll lose replacing him with Wirtz, so who am I to argue? They may well be wrong, he might end up playing LW, he might play false 9 if Isak doesn't join, or it may not work out at all. There are plenty of examples of players not suiting the position they were signed for, Lucas being one, Didi and Gini changing style from box to box players, or Joelinton being sh*t as a forward for Newcastle. Likewise other quality players don't work out for one reason or another, Naby, Thiago, Veron, Poulsen, it can happen.

So I've no idea if Wirtz will be a success there, if he will be better or worse than Szobo. I just didn't think we'd be changing formation to accommodate him as some suggested, nor did I think we had planned on playing him LW or CF, on the evidence available. I also didn't think that Dom would lose out too much at his expense, I suspected we'd see a lot more rotation this year and game time shared fairly equally.

So far it's hard to tell what the plan was/is as we've been dealing with injuries and suspensions and as I've said in other replies, it's far to early for anyone to draw any accurate conclusions on what has and what hasn't worked at this stage.

[RedReet]

Is it bizarre to discuss coutinho? Charly said klopp never played with a wirtz type player but he did.

It's interesting because your view is coutinho didn't fit the system and we improved without him.

My view is the system was fine but the defence was ****, which was then replaced when he left..

I guess Wirtz may help put it to bed..although the defence looks **** again

That's the bit I'm struggling with. We have so many issues we need to sort before we are going to see some coherent, structured play, particularly with the back 4. In a normal season, they say it's about October or November before teams hit their stride, never mind in a a season with so many changes in the team. So I find some of the back patting and self congratulating online a bit odd (not Memzey in this thread BTW), confirming that people were right about Wirtz all along

Especially when we are 2 points better off than we were with corresponding fixtures last year, so arguably if people want to use this tiny sample size, a more logical and factual case is that we have improved with Wirtz in the team

[RedReet]

A goal and an assist in two games is waaaay off his usual standards...

What's your point? It wasn't a criticism of Mo, but yes, he has been way short of his excellent standards whichever way you want to look at it. All 3 games so far, he's had little to no impact first 3/4's of games. I've no issue with that, in fact I've singled him out for praise both matches for having that winning mentality when others tire, however 3 games in last year he had more goals, more assists and his average score was waaaay higher than his average score this year.

So well done missing the point of my post, but which part of the above don't you agree with?

[BG1973]

I’m not saying Wirtz won’t be an asset. The collective needs some work though, surely that is obvious, unless you think this is as good as it’s going to get? The Coutinho thing, and it’s bizarre that we’re even discussing it, doesn’t make a compelling case for setting up with Wirtz as a No. 10. I just find it interesting that some would consider it “incredibly effective” despite the lack of silverware. I’d say our previous seasons’ midfield or the midfield with Gini, Hendo and Fab were incredibly effective. Not pretty, just effective, and I’d always take trophies over pretty play.

Is it bizarre to discuss coutinho? Charly said klopp never played with a wirtz type player but he did.

It's interesting because your view is coutinho didn't fit the system and we improved without him.

My view is the system was fine but the defence was ****, which was then replaced when he left..

I guess Wirtz may help put it to bed..although the defence looks **** again

[DerKrampus]

and our best player (Mo) falling well short of his usual standards.

A goal and an assist in two games is waaaay off his usual standards...

[memzey]

I've done all 3 of this season, and 4 with Arsenal on Sunday, this is one gifted guy, his movement is sublime and his touches are second to non, he needs to toughen up, that split second with him is still there, but prob needs a few games to get a wee bit sharper, but ****, he is a massive, massive talent we have on our hands

I hope you are right. I also think that he is a very gifted player. To my mind, we have yet to see the right mix or set up that makes us a better unit with him than we were last season. If that set up emerges on Sunday, and enables us to dominate the game, then no one will be happier than me. I really mean that.

[memzey]

Great - another confrontational pessimist!

I’ve been here over 19 years, glad you noticed!

Seriously though, I’m not pessimistic about our prospects, just seen enough to not let my desire or support colour my perception of what is actually going on. We have some serious work to do if we are going to get the best out of this group. I’ve seen nothing in the last year to suggest that Arne and his staff aren’t up to the task but they do have a task on their hands.
We can’t go through the season playing as we have in the first two games and win the league. That much is certain to my mind. The old adage of champions winning without playing well is certainly true but only by exception. That is to say, champions play well and win in almost all of their games but also often manage to win when they play poorly. We’ve played poorly, by champions standards, twice and won both games so far this term. Something is bound to change PDQ. I’d rather we started playing well than stopped winning. I’m not sure what that looks like with Wirtz in the team. I hope to find out on Sunday. That’s not pessimistic, is it?

[Le Chef]

I’m not saying Wirtz won’t be an asset. The collective needs some work though, surely that is obvious, unless you think this is as good as it’s going to get? The Coutinho thing, and it’s bizarre that we’re even discussing it, doesn’t make a compelling case for setting up with Wirtz as a No. 10. I just find it interesting that some would consider it “incredibly effective” despite the lack of silverware. I’d say our previous seasons’ midfield or the midfield with Gini, Hendo and Fab were incredibly effective. Not pretty, just effective, and I’d always take trophies over pretty play.

I've done all 3 of this season, and 4 with Arsenal on Sunday, this is one gifted guy, his movement is sublime and his touches are second to non, he needs to toughen up, that split second with him is still there, but prob needs a few games to get a wee bit sharper, but ****, he is a massive, massive talent we have on our hands