Record points total

[Le Chacal]

Yeap. You beat me to it!

Absolutely, the difference is Mourinho won the title with these players and would have won the CL in 2004 with that Chelski team.

And who won the CL that year?

Answer: Porto with a certain manager called Jose who?

[univofchicago]

Absolutely, the difference is Mourinho won the title with these players and would have won the CL in 2004 with that Chelski team.

And who won the CL that year?

Answer: Porto with a certain manager called Jose who?

Yes. Jose Mourinho won the CL with Porto. But that is my point. With FC Porto and a lot of the continental sides, coaches have less control over who they can bring in. Mourinho did a great job of assembling a side that was hard to break down and score goals against. And a lot of the credit must go to Mourinho and his tactical nous. That is why I think he is a great coach. But in the case of FC Porto, most of the credit for transfers will go to the general manager. I am sure Mourinho had some influence, but Mourinho was a relative newbie then and unless you happen to be Fabio Capello or the current Jose Mourinho, you have very little control of the club's transfer dealings.

[Le Chacal]

The competences are not the same but still the coach has the final word...

[FowlerLeftFoot]

moaninho is a tit

[Le Chacal]

moaninho is a tit

talk about football.
thank you

[El Jefecito]

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Ballack and Shevchenko are quality additions, but I really do feel that the departures of Duff, Gudjohnsen and Crespo (hopefully) is going to take the balance out of their side (at least temporarily).

I think Shevchenko will fit in very well, but I've got doubts about Ballack. Not that I doubt he is a good player. But I just think that his style of play won't be suited to the physical nature of Chelsea's game. Ballack likes to stay around the centre-circle area and distribute long or short balls left and right. He does it very well but just seem a bit stagnant at times. I've also noticed that he struggles a bit when the game turns physical and there isn't much space for him to work the ball.

I reckon Mourinho will start with Makelele-Lampard-Ballack as his three CM at the start of the season. But I also expect Ballack to find it hard to adapt for the very reasons stated above. That is why I am hopeful Mourinho will struggle a bit to find the right formula.

I've a slightly different view on Chelseas ability to transition. Which I think they will need to do. Ballack like you say likes to spray it around but he gets forward a LOT. Paired with Lampard makes me think that they need the midfield three as Lampard has proved beyond all doubt that he cannot play without a holding midfielder. Hence why 41221 has been the preferred tactic.

Now the rub Schevchenko is no Drogba, he cannot play as the lone striker, he needs to play alongside someone. Run off of them etc. This would suggest 442.

Reconciling the two is going to be really difficult because the problem cannot be solved on the whiteboard and then explained to the players in terms of fixed roles on the field. It's going to require game intelligence on the part of the players as they are going to need to adapt how they are playing through the course of the game.

To be honest I don't think Mourinho or most of the chelsea players have the smarts for that. Do you?

[El Jefecito]

I would say Mourinho is in the top two or three managers in the world. However I would say he is limited as considering how much money he has had to spend his purchases have been less than inspired.

Nearly all the best signings since Abramovich took over Chelsea were made by Ranieri.

He is very very limited in the tactical sense. How often was he able to change tactics (not players) to impact a game. Never. Compare this to Rafa. Different class.

He may be a great leader, motivator etc. But as a tactician he's limited.

[dww]

I think Mourinho has shown himself more than adept at changing the game. I admit his first thought seems to be to alter perssonel but he has often made subtle changes to his formation in a match to alter it.

My memory is terrible for details but in several games last season when teams played a man marker on Makellele he dropped Essien deeper aswell to make the midfield formation closer to what we play with Xabi and Momo. He also alters the way he uses his fullbacks a lot. I agree that Rafa is a better at tactics but I think you underestimate Mourinho.

[Red_Polo]

I think Mourinho is great at fostering a winning mentality and organising his team, getting them all used to a certain pattern of play. But when it comes to changing things in games the only thing he tends to do is throw on expensive like for like replacements (which often works but is something any manager could do if they had the money to have that standard of player on the bench). Other than that he really really struggles to think how to change things. Throw on Huth or Crespo to go with Drogba, play three wingers at once, he's tried these things a few times but the only thing that has ever really worked for him is putting his expensive like for like subs on - i.e. not changing the game but just hoping the fresh legs will win it for him.

[univofchicago]

He is very very limited in the tactical sense. How often was he able to change tactics (not players) to impact a game. Never. Compare this to Rafa. Different class.

He may be a great leader, motivator etc. But as a tactician he's limited.

Initially, I thought he was a great tactician. The way he set up that Chelsea side early in the 2004/05 season made me believe that this guy was a tactical genius. But some glaring mistakes recently (FA Cup semi-final etc) and, as you said, his inability to change tactics to impact a game has raised some doubts. But I still believe that he is a very good tactician. Next season will really be a real test of how good a tactician he is especially with all the new players coming in.

I also agree with you that Rafa is in a different class, but I have to side with dww that you underestimate Moaninho's abilities as a tactician a little bit...

[Red_Polo]

I prefer a bit of cushion at the top, so that we can concentrate on the Champions League Final and also give the young boys a run out.

1st Liverpool 98
2nd Chelsea 89
3rd Man.United 81
4th Arsenal 77

How about that?

Looks good

Seriously though, this season's title race is going to be really tough but I honestly believe we're going to do it. If we get Kuyt then I'll be putting a fair few bob on us coming out on top of the pile.

[univofchicago]

I've a slightly different view on Chelseas ability to transition. Which I think they will need to do. Ballack like you say likes to spray it around but he gets forward a LOT. Paired with Lampard makes me think that they need the midfield three as Lampard has proved beyond all doubt that he cannot play without a holding midfielder. Hence why 41221 has been the preferred tactic.

Now the rub Schevchenko is no Drogba, he cannot play as the lone striker, he needs to play alongside someone. Run off of them etc. This would suggest 442.

I think that was what I was implying but you've explained it better. I said that Mourinho can play two up front, or two in midfield as an alternative. If he ditches his usual 4-1-2-2-1 formation, then he will go for the formation that you have just explained. That will be 4-1-2-1-2. Makelele as the holding player with Ballack and Lampard pushing forward. Robben given a free role with Drogba alongside Shevchenko up front. The alternative would be to drop one of the centre-midfielders for a winger (Joe Cole) but what you just explained sounds the more likely.

Reconciling the two is going to be really difficult because the problem cannot be solved on the whiteboard and then explained to the players in terms of fixed roles on the field. It's going to require game intelligence on the part of the players as they are going to need to adapt how they are playing through the course of the game.

To be honest I don't think Mourinho or most of the chelsea players have the smarts for that. Do you?

That is a really difficult question. I don't really know. But as I said before, I've been trying to think of a silver lining and that is I hope that his players take an awful lot of time in adapting to the new formation should Mourinho decide to makes changes...

[univofchicago]

Throw on Huth or Crespo to go with Drogba, play three wingers at once, he's tried these things a few times but the only thing that has ever really worked for him is putting his expensive like for like subs on - i.e. not changing the game but just hoping the fresh legs will win it for him.

Yes, he made some bizarre decisions last year, that FA Cup semi-final was the tip of the iceberg. Long may it continue!

[El Jefecito]

I think Mourinho has shown himself more than adept at changing the game. I admit his first thought seems to be to alter perssonel but he has often made subtle changes to his formation in a match to alter it.

My memory is terrible for details but in several games last season when teams played a man marker on Makellele he dropped Essien deeper aswell to make the midfield formation closer to what we play with Xabi and Momo. He also alters the way he uses his fullbacks a lot. I agree that Rafa is a better at tactics but I think you underestimate Mourinho.

I agree with what you are saying, I think that maybe I'm using tactics in a much broader sense. For example, Mourinho doesn't coach his teams so that they could go 352 during the CL final. He can tweak but the overall formation stays largely the same.

In the games I've seen the only real formation changes have been to 424 at the end of a game they are changing. Seems very hamfisted comapred to Rafa.

The fact that he is so tied to 41221 also to me re-inforces that he is not as sophisticated as your typical contintental coach.

[univofchicago]

I agree with what you are saying, I think that maybe I'm using tactics in a much broader sense. For example, Mourinho doesn't coach his teams so that they could go 352 during the CL final. He can tweak but the overall formation stays largely the same.

In the games I've seen the only real formation changes have been to 424 at the end of a game they are changing. Seems very hamfisted comapred to Rafa.

The fact that he is so tied to 41221 also to me re-inforces that he is not as sophisticated as your typical contintental coach.

Ok, I understand. One big reason why the overall formation has stayed largely the same is that the original one has proved to be so successful (especially in the League). He has tweaked it at times but because that original setup was so successful, a lot of the tinkering has been perceived as failures.

I think we will see how good a tactician Mourinho really is next season when he will have to change the formation. First of all, as we discussed, because of the arrival of Shevchenko. And secondly because of the Champions League. As much as the setup been a success in the League, it has not proved to be as effective in the Champions League. The Champions League will be the absolute priority this year for Mourinho which is why I believe we can expect to see major changes in their team setup.