Dirk Kuyt

[Neil Young]

It's a bit of both, more nurture than nature I'd say. But even then, being clever in this sense just means you learn certain goalscoring skills faster, they are not actually innate in the slightest.

Sure I get your point but I'd really, really, really appreciate if you could choose different examples next time. For a moment there I thought we were in danger of going through a time-loop.

[Red_Polo]

Sure I get your point but I'd really, really, really appreciate if you could choose different examples next time. For a moment there I thought we were in danger of going through a time-loop.

[Neil Young]

Sure I get your point but I'd really, really, really appreciate etc. ad nauseam.

[Shaggy]

So basically just a good finisher of moves - someone with good movement, awareness, and finishing, all of which some people refuse to accept was learnt by labelling it as 'natural'.

As covered above, I think it's fair to say it's a relatively equal balance of both nature and nurture. I see what you mean about the use of the term 'natural goalscorer', but I do think there's some weight in the phrase as opposed to it being just a meaningless soundbite.

Anyway this is going slightly off-topic - not once did I suggest anyone expected Kuyt to be a Fowler-esque 'natural goalscorer'. Some, myself included, were hoping he'd be a clinical goal machine, for want of a better phrase. He's more profligate in front of goal, or at least he has been so far, than his goalscoring record suggested he might be. I think it's a fair and valid talking point as opposed to a criticism.

I don't want to be seen as getting on Dirk's case - I love him already, have been impressed with him and think he has a long-term future at the club. I'm just wondering how everybody else perceives him as a player. Personally I still feel like I'm trying to figure out exactly what sort of player he is and how he'll fit in, long-term. My guess is that he'll, ultimately, be our 'drop-off' frontman (although in a wholly different mould to someone like Litmanen) alongside a goalscorer....a striker as opposed to a forward, if you will.

[Red Chilli]

He reminds me more of a Paul Walsh than an Ian Rush. Both worked hard but Rush was clinical and was always in the right place. Walsh seemed to have to work hard for all his goals whereas Rush often seemed to just be on the end of moves.
That's my take on it anyway.

[kurtangle01]

2 games without a goal is hardly a drought is it?

[thesilverfoxlfc]

Slightly worried but he's class he will come good look at Bellers he's finding his feet now

[Red_Polo]

Anyway this is going slightly off-topic - not once did I suggest anyone expected Kuyt to be a Fowler-esque 'natural goalscorer'.

Yeah I know mate, it wasn't directed at you or your argument really, just had to have a rant about that expression when I saw it!

I think Kuyt will score goals regularly for us, and prove to be a fantastic signing. He's definitely our best striker already to my mind. His finishing is not at the level of someone like van Nistelrooy, but it's good enough that with his movement he can score something close to a goal every other game for us IMO.

[tomasjj]

Owen scored in more % of the games for us than Robbie.

I was surprised myself when I checked that out, so the myth about that Owen could score ten goals in five games or so and then go goaless from a number of games is just a myth.

Owen?



Don't use that twunt to bash ROBBIE!!!

[ARIMAN]

I have to disagree with the notion of a natural goalscorer being the be-all and end-all for a sucessful team

I think (and I`ll be happily corrected) there is a real dearth of quality "predator" strikers. Huntelaar was having a poor season, until recently for example

You can use RVN as an example for ManU as why clubs need not have a naturnal goalscorer to improve as team

Last year - RVN was prolific still, but when he didnt play or he was well marshalled by a good defense - ManUtd were relevatively impotent.

Ok - you can argue thats because he is purely a box player (not a link striker) but following through the point you`ll not that he still is scoring for Madrid, but ManUtd are much more threatening this season - why

Yes, the re-emergence of Scholes is important, and yes the players are one year older. But the main reason, which could be argued is that they have more variety in attack, more goal threat in general

In short, Kuyt is ideal in a sense, Ok he doesnt take all the chances he is presented with, but his link play/team play is excellent. Combine that with Bellamys' pace and good runs, the opposition is often stetched, offering chances to our midfield to score, hence varying our attack and therefore limiting the opponents defensive stratigies


Look at Chelsea, most sucessful (last two years), when they had a varied goal threat from Frank, JCole, Essien and Robben

[Shaggy]

I have to disagree with the notion of a natural goalscorer being the be-all and end-all for a sucessful team

I think (and I`ll be happily corrected) there is a real dearth of quality "predator" strikers. Huntelaar was having a poor season, until recently for example

You can use RVN as an example for ManU as why clubs need not have a naturnal goalscorer to improve as team

Last year - RVN was prolific still, but when he didnt play or he was well marshalled by a good defense - ManUtd were relevatively impotent.

Ok - you can argue thats because he is purely a box player (not a link striker) but following through the point you`ll not that he still is scoring for Madrid, but ManUtd are much more threatening this season - why

Yes, the re-emergence of Scholes is important, and yes the players are one year older. But the main reason, which could be argued is that they have more variety in attack, more goal threat in general

In short, Kuyt is ideal in a sense, Ok he doesnt take all the chances he is presented with, but his link play/team play is excellent. Combine that with Bellamys' pace and good runs, the opposition is often stetched, offering chances to our midfield to score, hence varying our attack and therefore limiting the opponents defensive stratigies


Look at Chelsea, most sucessful (last two years), when they had a varied goal threat from Frank, JCole, Essien and Robben

I agree mate.

My initial point was that Kuyt isn't exactly the type of player I thought he may be (based on what little I'd seen of him).

The Scum are indeed a perfect example. They're stretching teams much more effectively than they were with the slightly cumbersome and immobile van Nistelrooy. Saha is far from being "a natural" in front of goal but his other assets are benefiting their poxy team, big time.

[kurtangle01]

I agree mate.

My initial point was that Kuyt isn't exactly the type of player I thought he may be (based on what little I'd seen of him).

The Scum are indeed a perfect example. They're stretching teams much more effectively than they were with the slightly cumbersome and immobile van Nistelrooy. Saha is far from being "a natural" in front of goal but his other assets are benefiting their poxy team, big time.

What were you expecting from him, shaggy?

[Red Chilli]

What were you expecting from him, shaggy?

I think I'm the same as Shaggy, hadn't seen that much of Kuyt. He was vaunted as a "Goal machine" by many different people.

[kurtangle01]

I think I'm the same as Shaggy, hadn't seen that much of Kuyt. He was vaunted as a "Goal machine" by many different people.

Aren't you happy with his goal return thus far? He's only went 2 games without a goal which is hardly a drought is it? He has settled reasonably well so far and has contributed not only goals but also assists. Look at Drogba for example, everyone thought that they had signed a donkey for the last 2 seasons and look at him now. Henry was the same when he signed for the arse and Kuyt has settled better than either of those 2 did in their first 5 months here.

He'll be a huge succes and will contribiute at least 15 league goals per season for us over the next few years IMHO.

[carheex]

No I'm not worried about his goalscoring. Didn't we all know that we weren't getting a golascorer?

Kuyt was purchased on the strength of 83 goals in 122 games for Feyenoord. Enlighten us....how have you concluded that he isn't a goalscorer?