Selling Crouch?

[Shaggy]

Garcia's success rate with passes 71%, Crouch's 65%.

Meaningless stat. Been there, done it.

[Rosco]

Ahhhh someone with a sensible post on Crouch!! Crouch was so important for the improvements we made last season and thats what Rafa all about players to improve the team not an individual super star!!

Good post mate, I would be interested to see how he gets on next season with 2 genuine wide players and a quick partner in Bellamy to get onto his flick ons and knock downs.

Some of the people on here seem to think they are a better judge of footballer than Rafa!!

Do you honestly believe Crouch was behind our improvement last season ? You're talking about a striker who misses 92% of his chances as being a major factor for us ? ... Give me a break.

If you really what to see what the difference for us last season was I'll give you a few hints :

1. Our best defence for 19 years.

2. Gerrard and Alonso fit all season, as opposed to both being out for three months each the year before.

3. A new Golden Gloves goalkeeper in Pepe Reina.

4. Momo Sissoko taking to the Premiership like a duck to water, he was invaluable.

5. Harry Kewell playing a much bigger part than previously, which gave us a perfect balance in the team.

6. No Pellegrino, we rested Sami a lot when we progressed through the CL in 04/05 and Pellegrino was worth a goal a game to the opposition.

7. We started games in 04/05 with Darren Potter and John Welsh in midfield. In 05/06 we didn't need either if them.

8. After our slow start to the season in 05/06 Rafa realised he needed two up front, which was a huge success for us. In 04/05 he stuck with 1 up front for the majority of the season, primarily because of injuries, but it cost us in the league.


Now before I finish I'm not saying Crouch didn't help us along the way, he did. But to suggest he was the main reason for our improvement is utterly ridiculous when you take into account even a few of the differences between the 04/05 season and the 05/06 season. Particularly when he's arguably a worse striker than the one he replaced.

[Rosco]

Meaningless stat. Been there, done it.

Why is it meaningless ?

[Shaggy]

Why is it meaningless ?

Crouch leads the line and hence receives the ball when other players are not around, and often in complete isolation (there were times last season when Crouch was hideously isolated). It is to be expected that in this situation it is harder to offload the ball and thus harder to retain possession.

Garcia usually receives the ball with his head up and play in front of him.

That's why it's a meaningless stat. You've got to put into context.

[Rosco]

Crouch leads the line and thus receives the ball when other players are not around, and often in complete isolation (there were times last season when Crouch was hideously isolated). It is to be expected that in this situation it is harder to offload the ball and thus harder to retain possession.

Garcia usually receives the ball with his head up and play in front of him.

That's why it's a meaningless stat. You've got to put into context.

By all means put in context, but even out of context it doesn;t make it meaningless.

When watching Crouch in the coming season, do me a favour and just take note of how many easy balls he wins in the air that he knocks to opposition defenders.

I think we're a much better and more fluid footballing team when he's not on the pitch. Fowler and Bellamy would be a much more dangerous proposition.

[kurtangle01]

i think crouch has improved a lot under rafa. i was apalled when he first signed but he grew on me as the season progressed. he's not the most gifted striker in the world but what he does is add a different dimension to the team. more stats than i care to worry about have been mentioned in this thread. a lot of them have been fair enough like he only scord 7 league goals and only had 4 assits but how many players did he pass the ball to that in turn assisted others? he holds the ball up well and i'm sure that this season will see him improve again.

[Shaggy]

By all means put in context, but even out of context it doesn;t make it meaningless.

When watching Crouch in the coming season, do me a favour and just take note of how many easy balls he wins in the air that he knocks to opposition defenders.

I think we're a much better and more fluid footballing team when he's not on the pitch. Fowler and Bellamy would be a much more dangerous proposition.

I certainly won't ever be taking notes during a Liverpool game. What kind of blert would do that?

Well you're entitled to your opinion, and you at least manage to articulate it without being obnoxious - which is a refreshing change in this thread. I disagree obviously, although I go along with Bellamy & Fowler being a potentially good partnership - but Crouch is crucial to us. Ask Steven Gerrard.

[Rosco]

I certainly won't ever be taking notes during a Liverpool game. What kind of blert would do that?

Well you're entitled to your opinion, and you at least manage to articulate it without being obnoxious - which is a refreshing change in this thread. I disagree obviously, although I go along with Bellamy & Fowler being a potentially good partnership - but Crouch is crucial to us. Ask Steven Gerrard.

The same Steven Gerrard who was praying Rooney would be fit during the WC so Crouch didn't have to play ?

[Rosco]

I certainly won't ever be taking notes during a Liverpool game. What kind of blert would do that?

Well you're entitled to your opinion, and you at least manage to articulate it without being obnoxious - which is a refreshing change in this thread. I disagree obviously, although I go along with Bellamy & Fowler being a potentially good partnership - but Crouch is crucial to us. Ask Steven Gerrard.

Actually I've a confession to make, I tried to take notes once of a Peter Crouch performance. The FA Cup Semi Final against Chelsea. The first 9 times he had the ball he gave it away 8 times. I gave up 15 mins into the game because it was depressing.

[kurtangle01]

The same Steven Gerrard who was praying Rooney would be fit during the WC so Crouch didn't have to play ?

no that was so he didn't have to play up front. wasn't it.

[MrMichael]

Is this the sort of place that thinks it's OK to call a LFC and England striker a "goofy lumering (whatever that means) impotent oaf" ?

That's just plain nasty. Goofy? Well that's relevant to selling him. Lumering? I presume he means lumbering and as we've seen he covered more ground than Stevie G. Impotent? Well Ryan must be speaking from personal experience unless he has seen Crouch's medical records. Again I fail to see how that is relevant to selling him. Oaf? Well that's also difficult word to define but it is quite clearly an insult put in there for the sake of it.

So please, enlighten me, is Crouch a goofy, lumering, impotent oaf and is this criticism justified. If you think it is then this site has gone down in my estimation.

For what its worth G_Man, I find the consistent use of such terminology extremely distasteful, and anyone who comes out with comments like that needs to look the word "supporter" up in the dictionary if you ask me. There are many perfectly valid and intelligent arguments to be made about whether or not Pater Crouch is good enough, or the right player, to be playing for Liverpool, quite a few of them made in the posts after yours and preceeding this one actually (good thread rescue Shaggy/Rosco/Kurt).

But the constant use of derogatory terminology to refer to specific LFC players is done more often to wind-up other fans than engender any form of actual debate, and in a football discussion forum should be discouraged as much as possible. In my opinion.

[Leonard Crowley]

You're hoping it's you, aren't you?

Well, even a spurious notoriety is better than anonymity.

It isn't me though.

[dww]

The same Steven Gerrard who was praying Rooney would be fit during the WC so Crouch didn't have to play ?

Or alternatively the same Gerrard who realises that Rooney is a world class talent. I would happily swap Crouch for someone in the same bracket, however that is not an option and I think that Crouch does an excellent job for the the team.

[red g]

Or alternatively the same Gerrard who realises that Rooney is a world class talent. I would happily swap Crouch for someone in the same bracket, however that is not an option and I think that Crouch does an excellent job for the the team.

Crouchie does a great job for the team,its not about 11 world class players on a pitch,its about working together as a team and think crouch does that very well.

[Leonard Crowley]

I'm also concerned that there's something of a bizarre 'cult-type-thing' building up around Crouch. It seems that people who love him have undergone some kind of brainwashing or footballing epiphany and have been left utterly immune to reason when it comes to an honest discussion of his strengths and weaknesses.

It's not a 'cult-type-thing'. It's the symbolic importance of Crouch in modern Britain.

He's not particularly talented or good at doing what you'd expect of a striker BUT he IS a tryer and 'a team-player' and some British people think that this is the most important thing and is noble and virtuous in itself.

Other people, often Jonny Foreigners, think that personal results are the most important thing because every team member has personal targets to reach if the team is to prosper (goals in the case of Crouch). For these people, effort and attitude are only a means to an end.

So you see, our feelings about Crouch are closely linked with the the loss of our Empire and the rise of American global hegemony.