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**Laz** · 06-08-06, 01:37 PM

I didn't take it as confrontational and I'm not one to go over the top or make facetious comments if someone disagrees (as happened earlier in the thread). This is, after all, a discussion forum.

I don't want to bang on about the facts but I fail to see how my statement was subjective as I was careful not to base it on personal feelings.

Truth be told, I am far from convinced that Peter Crouch can get us any further towards the title but I cannot deny his contribution to the team last season. I am hopeful that our new signings and possibly a striker yet to sign will give us the impetus to push even further this season. My personal opinion is that for someone who actually had more shots on target than Darren Bent he should have converted a hell of a lot more than he did.

I am not posting in the hope of converting people into Crouch fans I just felt that some of the earlier attacks were harsh to say the least. If you believe that he was not important to the team then we'll agree to disagree.

PS. This was a reply to delinquent but I started it, had some food, finished it and others got in there too.

**Harv** · 06-08-06, 01:42 PM

I tried to stay clear of this thread, but alas the temptation got too great.

Yes Crouchie doesnt hit the back of the net with regularity, but he was a MAJOR influence in our season. How anyone can be so blind to that fact does my head in! Sure he isnt a pretty boy, he doesn't have fancy boots, he looks awkward and he isnt a great goalscorer...who bloody cares! He added so much to our play last season, he was an integral part of our fantastic season, and he is a favourite with the lads in the dressing room. He will only get better with our additions over the off-season.

Ryan you are an incredibly ignorant fan,do you actually support Liverpool? I havn't seen one of your posts that encourages one of our players. Thats incredibly sad.

:whatever:

**Hamstrung** · 06-08-06, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Rosco

That's not a fact. That's merely an opinion. If you read my earlier post there's a whole host of reasons why we improved. Peter Crouch was not integral to our improvement last season.

So he wasn't integral in getting us to the cup final for example?

what about this match when he set up one for Gerrard and scored the other if memory serves?

26 Dec, 2005 Newcastle United Barclays Premiership H 15:00 2-0

or indeed the return match where he won a penalty, scored and set up Gerrard? Plenty of other examples. To say Crouch had no impact on our improvement is daft. There were other reasons too, but Crouch was a big part of it.

Originally posted by Delinquent

Posting a definition of "integral" still doesn't make your assertion any more than an opinion. There's nothing to suggest that we wouldn't have improved equally, had we made the other improvements that Rosco highlighted. .

By the same token then, would it just be opinion to say that none of the signings had any impact on our higher league position, given you can't quantify that sort of improvement, unless 1 player wins x number of games on his own?

Course its opinion, but to deny the obvious to try and suit and argument is ignorant.

**Delinquent** · 06-08-06, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Laz

I didn't take it as confrontational and I'm not one to go over the top or make facetious comments if someone disagrees (as happened earlier in the thread). This is, after all, a discussion forum.

I don't want to bang on about the facts but I fail to see how my statement was subjective as I was careful not to base it on personal feelings.

Truth be told, I am far from convinced that Peter Crouch can get us any further towards the title but I cannot deny his contribution to the team last season. I am hopeful that our new signings and possibly a striker yet to sign will give us the impetus to push even further this season. My personal opinion is that for someone who actually had more shots on target than Darren Bent he should have converted a hell of a lot more than he did.

I am not posting in the hope of converting people into Crouch fans I just felt that some of the earlier attacks were harsh to say the least. If you believe that he was not important to the team then we'll agree to disagree.

PS. This was a reply to delinquent but I started it, had some food, finished it and others got in there too.

Can't disagree with any of that.

Although I think many of the harsher critics bank on exactly this sort of reaction so I do question the worth of preaching about it.

I'm hopeful that Kuyt will sign as I feel he was Rafa's first choice when he signed Crouch anyway. Peter perhaps has his place as an impact player but when there are players out there that have all of his attributes AND score goals, you have to question his inclusion. He simply should not be the focal attacking point in a club that wants to challenge for top honours.

**disco** · 06-08-06, 03:34 PM

He came joint 4th with Sissoko in Morse's/Koptalk Insider's man of the match competition (other top 4 were Gerrard, Alonso, Sissoko.... and Kewell

h: )

Cisse came in about 7th.

Knowing what some posters on Koptalk are like, there's NO WAY he'd have finished that high if he didn't actually play bloody well.

**disco** · 06-08-06, 03:36 PM

PS Personally I hope we're not quite as reliant on him this year. This would involve buying a new striker, or Bellamy and Fowler having a great partnership

**KopiteCalling** · 06-08-06, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by MrMichael

For what its worth G_Man, I find the consistent use of such terminology extremely distasteful, and anyone who comes out with comments like that needs to look the word "supporter" up in the dictionary if you ask me. There are many perfectly valid and intelligent arguments to be made about whether or not Pater Crouch is good enough, or the right player, to be playing for Liverpool, quite a few of them made in the posts after yours and preceeding this one actually (good thread rescue Shaggy/Rosco/Kurt).

But the constant use of derogatory terminology to refer to specific LFC players is done more often to wind-up other fans than engender any form of actual debate, and in a football discussion forum should be discouraged as much as possible. In my opinion.

i happen to like him,but i think we need better from our strikers.but anyway,thats not important.i dont see the point of debating the merits of Crouch.

what i'm curious is why people get angry when criticisms of him are made.yes,perhaps some of them are on the malicious side when made about his physique,but what of it?

these are public figures and comments about them (whether good or nasty) are to be expected.i dont get why fans get so wound up?

and truth be told,its usually about Peter Crouch..i dont think we'd see many raging posters lambasting me if i were to say that Cisse is a tattoed wife-beater,or that Steve Finnan needs driving lessons, or that Riise needs to get a phone without SMS.

of course,i'd never say these things for the simple reason that they are very cruel.but i wouldbt be 'wound up' if someone else did.these are public figures,and can take care of themselves.

**FowlerLeftFoot** · 06-08-06, 05:23 PM

agree with u, kopitecalling.

**red g** · 06-08-06, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by disco

PS Personally I hope we're not quite as reliant on him this year. This would involve buying a new striker, or Bellamy and Fowler having a great partnership

I would agree with that.....think he has done very well last year, but if someeone else did come in, i would be more than happy

**MrMichael** · 06-08-06, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by KopiteCalling

i happen to like him,but i think we need better from our strikers.but anyway,thats not important.i dont see the point of debating the merits of Crouch.

what i'm curious is why people get angry when criticisms of him are made.yes,perhaps some of them are on the malicious side when made about his physique,but what of it?

these are public figures and comments about them (whether good or nasty) are to be expected.i dont get why fans get so wound up?

and truth be told,its usually about Peter Crouch..i dont think we'd see many raging posters lambasting me if i were to say that Cisse is a tattoed wife-beater,or that Steve Finnan needs driving lessons, or that Riise needs to get a phone without SMS.

of course,i'd never say these things for the simple reason that they are very cruel.but i wouldbt be 'wound up' if someone else did.these are public figures,and can take care of themselves.

Fair points. My issue is mostly with a constant barrage of such comments which some people feel they have to make, the intent with which it is done, and the effect this has of denying any sensible debate and instead causing the rapid and inevitable deterioration of threads into fights.

The fact that the last page and a half of this thread contains 10 times more interesting and well thought out debate about Crouch than the first 3 or so demonstrates this amply I feel.

**brendan** · 06-08-06, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by ShaggyAlonso

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Selling Crouch?

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