England v Pakistan 3rd Test thread

[6sheep]

we`re beginning to show strength in depth
some cracking displays..monty shutting the door on giles methinks
bell tonning for fun..let`s hope he can play as well against the aussies
flintoff to come back..should be a good winter

[dww]

I doubt it Fletcher rates overall contribution, so Giles will be in with a shout until Panesar proves himself in the field or as a batsman.

However Panesar has made big strides and it makes a change for England to go to Australia with two spinners neither of whom are a complete embarassment.

[G_Man]

Giles is playing catch up now. I can't see him displacing Monty. THe difference is, Monty can take wickets on an unfavourable pitch against batsmen who are top class against spinners. Giles used to bowl into the rough and/or frustrat batsmen into making mistakes. Often he was used as a stop gap whilst our pacemen had a rest.
Monty is a strike bowler. I haven't been this excited about an England spinner since Tufnell took the game seriously. Unfortunately it was shortlived in his case.

[dww]

I watched the last day of the Lords test and what was noticable about Monty was how his body language changed when the crowd was giving him support. He then looked twice as confident and consequently seemed to bowl more threateningly. I hope that his success in this series will mean that he will in future back himself without needing a crowd.

I think that it will be interesting to see how it pans out. You ar e certainly right that Giles will now have to prove his form rather than walk straight into the team.

[6sheep]

tuffers before bushtucker trials & loans.co.uk .. them was the days

[G_Man]

I remember Tuffers single-handedly (well not quite) bowling out the formidable Windies at the Oval once. Pure class.

[Shaggy]

Strength in depth now or what?!

Ashes certainties (1st XI, I mean):

Strauss
Trescothick
Cook?
Pietersen
Flintoff
Hoggard
Panesar?
Harmison

Eight positions pretty much nailed on, fitness permitting, and these lot fighting for the other three:

Chris Read
Geraint Jones
Bell
Mahmood
Collingwood
Plunkett
Ashley Giles if fit

That's 15 players who you'd back to do a decent job, and we've still Simon Jones to come back from injury (one day...hopefully) and possibly even Vaughan.

[G_Man]

I'd put Read in as a certainty now.
He is just the best wicket keeper in the country and it is a specialist position. He has shown he can bat, OK he hasn't got a Test ton like Jones, but he can bat with the openers and he can bat with the tail.
Jones will drop more catches and crucially miss more stumpings than Read and IN AUSTRALIA where pitches are hard and swing is minimal, chances will be at a premium for England. That is where we have lost Ashes series in australia before, we haven't had the bowlers to create the chances and their batsmen make hay.
For the record, I think we'll lose the Ashes, at best we might draw the series and retain the Ashes, but we will be much more competitive than in the last 20 years.
It's interesting Shaggy that you put Cook as a certainty but Bell as a possibility. I think they are in direct competition.
S. Jones will not play for the first 3 tests but may be back for the last 2- no chance in my opinion.
I don't think Michael will play, he's pretty down about it to be honest.
Jimmy Anderson is still young and must be included as a possibility.

Come on then cricket fans, who would be your England 16 for the Ashes assuming Vaughan and S.Jones are out but Giles is fit?

goes away to ponder

[Shaggy]

Agreed re Read, but he may have a little bit more to do yet in terms of cementing his place. I do think he'll do it though, comfortably.

Cook and Bell may well be in direct competition when Flintoff gets fit, with Collingwood almost certain to make way for Fred, although they could line up in the same side? I prefer Cook myself, despite Bell's recent good form. Cook is brilliant on the back foot - which will come in very handy in Australia.

Injuries permitting, I'd go with this 16:

Strauss
Trescothick
Cook
Pietersen
Bell
Flintoff
Read
Panesar
Hoggard
Harmison
Mahmood

Collingwood
AN Other batsman (?)
Geraint Jones
Plunkett
Anderson

[G_Man]

It's the 6th batsman that I'm struggling with too. Of course if Michael was fit, he'd be first choice, but he won't play.
I've got 2 all rounders, 2 keepers, 5 batsmen and 4 bowlers nailed on.

I'm not sure who the 5th and 6th bowlers are but it would be out of Anderson, Mahmood, Plunkett, S.Jones (risky) and Tremlett.

[chewyuk]

Did you back us? Looking good, Monty strikes!! 52-2.

Sits back and smokes cigar

[dww]

I think we will take Jones in addition to the rest of the squad, or send him to that academy thing we send young players to in Australia to carry on rehab but still be available if fit.

I have to say I would worry going into a test against Australia with any of Anderson, Tremlett, Mahmood or Plunkett in the side. They all need to work on bowling a consistant line and hold down an end when it is not going for them.

[Shaggy]

Sits back and smokes cigar

[chewyuk]

Not much but a few Kronenberg Blanc's have been sunk !

[G_Man]

I'm basking in my predictive prowess having dismissed the "nailed on draw" claims and also my prediction that we could bowl Pakistan out in 2 sessions on a last day pitch.

I know my Headingley pitches