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-   -   Nat Phillips (https://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=91115)

Fredo 31-05-21 08:52 PM

We might not be selling but he might want to go to get first team football.

RedAndWhite 31-05-21 09:30 PM

People in here seeming happy with 10/15M when Harry Maguire cost 85M :shake:

Scratch 31-05-21 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedAndWhite (Post 3717315)
People in here seeming happy with 10/15M when Harry Maguire cost 85M :shake:

I would so love Klopp to come out with a statement like that when the first paltry 15m bid comes in.

He won't, cos he's too classy, but it would fun to watch Red Cafe explode.

Exiled_red 01-06-21 07:25 AM

The reasons Maguire went for that kind of money were he was hyped up by the UK press, he was a 'star' of England's 'successful' World Cup and was regarded as one of the countries best defenders, he had a good few years of top flight experience, Man Utd are a top club with alot of money and Leicester didn't want to sell. All this combined to produce a stupidly large fee. Most/all of those don't apply to Phillips

danperkins 01-06-21 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiled_red (Post 3717337)
The reasons Maguire went for that kind of money were he was hyped up by the UK press, he was a 'star' of England's 'successful' World Cup and was regarded as one of the countries best defenders, he had a good few years of top flight experience, Man Utd are a top club with alot of money and Leicester didn't want to sell. All this combined to produce a stupidly large fee. Most/all of those don't apply to Phillips

:handshake:

RedAndWhite 01-06-21 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiled_red (Post 3717337)
The reasons Maguire went for that kind of money were he was hyped up by the UK press, he was a 'star' of England's 'successful' World Cup and was regarded as one of the countries best defenders, he had a good few years of top flight experience, Man Utd are a top club with alot of money and Leicester didn't want to sell. All this combined to produce a stupidly large fee. Most/all of those don't apply to Phillips

While I agree, and yes there is a certain bias on my behalf, my point isn't entirely invalid. Maguire may be over priced, but i think that by the same measure Phillip at 10/15M is underpriced. He has shown as much this season given his relatively limited game time so far as Maguire had/has - again insert bias here - so to want rid for such a low price makes no sense.

Even looking at the improvement in the player himself in the time he has been in the first team shows there is still room to improve, and while he may never be a first team player he is solid squad player and one who I doubt we could readily replace for the same amount.

Exiled_red 01-06-21 10:34 AM

I don't doubt Maguire was over priced, to be honest I have no idea where Phillips true value lies but a big part of the present market. Two big factors in any transfer are the situations of the selling and buying club. If the player is a first team player at the selling club there will be a reluctance to sell which pushes the price up. This applies to Maguire but won't apply to Phillips. Similarly the situation of the buying club affects price, if you are selling to us, Man Utd etc you will ask more than from a Burnley or Newcastle type club. Was it Jamal Lewis who went to Newcastle for alot less than they were willing to sell to us for? They see the bigger clubs as having deeper pockets and it's a chance to get more money and to be fair Leicester did it fantastically with Maguire.

frank the tank 01-06-21 11:56 AM

I think both opinions are true.

In reality, it wouldn't be a huge surprise to see Nat Phillips go to a Burnley or a Newcastle for 10 to 15mil and then move on again in a year or so to a Villa / Leicester / Arsenal / Everton for something like 40 mil. Edwards et al will know this a lot more than us and will therefore probably cover the bases with things like performance related add-ons and sell-on clauses.

It also wouldn't be a surprise to see him stay at LFC and not play that much.....and end up not progressing as a player and ending up in the championship at the end of it.

In reality he has a short career and he would probably be best advised to do something this summer to get a bit of a pay hike while his stock is high. I am not sure what his wage is now but if he moved to another premier league club, then surely it is likely he will at least double his money. His agent should be pushing for a pay rise anyway.

I think he might end up leaving in part-exchange for another player. Someone like Tielemens would be great!!!

Paul12 01-06-21 12:06 PM

I think a big part of the make-up of player is belief in oneself. Nat will feel he has proved, and can continue to prove, people wrong. So he will want to stay because he feels that, despite others getting fit and purchases, he will get enough games to make it worth staying. Only proof to the contrary will cause him to want to move.

The club will not want to sell this summer because there is too much uncertainty about the injured players.

Maybe though at Xmas when (a) he has seen he is not getting enough games and (b) some struggling team thinks his defending can keep them up.

frank the tank 01-06-21 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul12 (Post 3717380)
I think a big part of the make-up of player is belief in oneself. Nat will feel he has proved, and can continue to prove, people wrong. So he will want to stay because he feels that, despite others getting fit and purchases, he will get enough games to make it worth staying. Only proof to the contrary will cause him to want to move.

The club will not want to sell this summer because there is too much uncertainty about the injured players.

Maybe though at Xmas when (a) he has seen he is not getting enough games and (b) some struggling team thinks his defending can keep them up.



agree..... but lets say he is on 10k per week at Liverpool......and someone comes in and offers 35k a week......then he will want a hike at Liverpool. And his agent wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't go back to them and said "you are paying him as a back-up / development player but now he deserves to be a first team squad player"

If there is an offer of 15m on the player, then LFC will leave it up to the player in my opinion

baitman 01-06-21 01:11 PM

If we were to sell him for 15-20m then any replacement we were to buy in for similar money would be covered in question marks.
Id sooner we stuck with what we had and paid him a more realistic wage.
We dont know how well gomez, vvd and matip will return from injuries so we need a decent quality back up that won't be a massive step down in quality.

frank the tank 01-06-21 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baitman (Post 3717396)
If we were to sell him for 15-20m then any replacement we were to buy in for similar money would be covered in question marks.
Id sooner we stuck with what we had and paid him a more realistic wage.
We dont know how well gomez, vvd and matip will return from injuries so we need a decent quality back up that won't be a massive step down in quality.

agree completely - just not sure LFC will agree too

Jaco_Pastorious 01-06-21 01:25 PM

Think it is win win whether he stays or goes.

He stays and we have a 5th choice CB that whilst being a big drop off in quality from three, if not all four, of those ahead of him, can still come in and do a job if we are stuck.

He goes and we get a much bigger fee for him than we would have last summer. Any fee from 15m to 25m would not surprise me for him.

Zapater 01-06-21 01:49 PM

Let's assume that Gomez, Virgil and Matip will return to some semblance of fitness. That means that we still have Konate ahead of him. He's above Davies and Williams in the pecking order. I think that Williams should be loaned out, but as it stands we have 7 players to fill 2 positions. That's excluding Fabinho who is a pretty good central defender himself. As injury prone as Gomez and Matip are, this is a freak season and it surely won't happen again.

Let go and use the cash towards Wijnaldam's replacement or another attacker. His stock will never be this high again and he'll rarely play outside of the domestic cups.

Jaco_Pastorious 01-06-21 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapater (Post 3717408)
Let's assume that Gomez, Virgil and Matip will return to some semblance of fitness. That means that we still have Konate ahead of him. He's above Davies and Williams in the pecking order. I think that Williams should be loaned out, but as it stands we have 7 players to fill 2 positions. That's excluding Fabinho who is a pretty good central defender himself. As injury prone as Gomez and Matip are, this is a freak season and it surely won't happen again.

Let go and use the cash towards Wijnaldam's replacement or another attacker. His stock will never be this high again and he'll rarely play outside of the domestic cups.


Fifth choice is as good as it gets for him next season. He is well below the four above him in quality so he will need for three CBs to be out to get a game.

He turns 25 before the coming season ends so is going to boil down to whether he wants to be a ressie again at 25 (barring another season with a freak amount of injuries at the same time) or use his current enhanced profile to get a starting berth as a smaller club along with a big hike in wages.


As said earlier, it is win win for the club. He stays and the club keeps a low wage back up option that can fill in in a pinch.

He goes and the club gets a decent fee where they once would not have done so.

Roboklopp 01-06-21 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapater (Post 3717408)
Let's assume that Gomez, Virgil and Matip will return to some semblance of fitness. That means that we still have Konate ahead of him. He's above Davies and Williams in the pecking order. I think that Williams should be loaned out, but as it stands we have 7 players to fill 2 positions. That's excluding Fabinho who is a pretty good central defender himself. As injury prone as Gomez and Matip are, this is a freak season and it surely won't happen again.

Let go and use the cash towards Wijnaldam's replacement or another attacker. His stock will never be this high again and he'll rarely play outside of the domestic cups.

We canít make that assumption tho- that & pushing Fabs back is what fucked us up this season. Plus we donít have Gini in MF & both Hendo & Millie are a year older, so thatíll weaken the MF even more without Fabs.

baitman 01-06-21 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roboklopp (Post 3717420)
We canít make that assumption tho- that & pushing Fabs back is what fucked us up this season. Plus we donít have Gini in MF & both Hendo & Millie are a year older, so thatíll weaken the MF even more without Fabs.

:handshake:
Phillips as an option means not weakening our midfield that is already piss weak and has no real depth.
Taking fabinho or henderson into defence has proved to be foolish.
Will matip and gomez remain injury free. I woudnt bet on it.
This would move Nat up to 3rd choice, should we sign konate (and get a confirmation lean) and vvd returns with no issues...

Paul12 02-06-21 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roboklopp (Post 3717420)
We canít make that assumption tho- that & pushing Fabs back is what fucked us up this season. Plus we donít have Gini in MF & both Hendo & Millie are a year older, so thatíll weaken the MF even more without Fabs.

Jurgen took a concious decision at the beginning of last season that Fab would be our fallback central defender. And yes it turned out to be a big loss. I wonder though whether it would have been such a loss in a normal season (ie with high fitness levels, more nd longer rest periods ...and therefore a team that is pressing consistently and higher up the pitch)? In that League winning season there were times where having two central defenders on the pitch seemed an unnecessary luxury.

Fuzzy 02-06-21 02:33 PM

https://i.redd.it/0wp84m0rgu271.jpg

Dating Liam Gallagher's daughter :haha: not a good week for that cunt.

S-RED 02-06-21 03:28 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Things you like to see

Jaco_Pastorious 02-06-21 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy (Post 3717580)
https://i.redd.it/0wp84m0rgu271.jpg

Dating Liam Gallagher's daughter :haha: not a good week for that cunt.



Looks like one of those redneck horror films where a bunch of teens are being chased by some hill billy killers.

Angryred 02-06-21 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious (Post 3717590)
Looks like one of those redneck horror films where a bunch of teens are being chased by some hill billy killers.

Deliverance was & still the best one!

Jaco_Pastorious 03-06-21 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angryred (Post 3717597)
Deliverance was & still the best one!


He got a real purdy mouth ain't he? :crackoff:

Angryred 03-06-21 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious (Post 3717688)
He got a real purdy mouth ain't he? :crackoff:

:haha:

"I bet you can squeal like a pig!" :jaw:

:haha:

Jaco_Pastorious 03-06-21 02:11 PM

SCCCRRRREEEEEEEEEEEE! :p

maxwellbaxter 03-06-21 03:25 PM

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.-6XSBj...id=ImgDet&rs=1

Jaco_Pastorious 03-06-21 03:30 PM

https://i2.wp.com/trunkshotscinema.c...24%2C450&ssl=1

maxwellbaxter 03-06-21 03:33 PM

https://media3.giphy.com/media/QA1ch...ized-large.gif

Jaco_Pastorious 03-06-21 05:03 PM

:haha:

Angryred 03-06-21 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxwellbaxter (Post 3717743)

Haha..."Don't tell anybody about what happened out here!"

baitman 03-06-21 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angryred (Post 3717760)
Haha..."Don't tell anybody about what happened out here!"

Was this on your last EST members meet up :jaw:

Angryred 04-06-21 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baitman (Post 3717764)
Was this on your last EST members meet up :jaw:

Yep, from that they coined the movie "I know what you did Last Summer!"

Fuzzy 12-06-21 11:51 AM


vlahka 12-06-21 12:08 PM

There should be a law saying you have to wait 1 month after asking for the tattoo idea. By then you might come to your senses and not do it.

Jaco_Pastorious 12-06-21 12:23 PM

Looks more like Tony Bellend, sorry Bellew, wearing a Liverpool FC top.


In fact that is a rumour that should be spread in the hope Bellew hears it and gets wound up by it. :D

baitman 12-06-21 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious (Post 3718912)
Looks more like Tony Bellend, sorry Bellew, wearing a Liverpool FC top.


In fact that is a rumour that should be spread in the hope Bellew hears it and gets wound up by it. :D

Agree on the bellwhiff similarity, and defo send it out into the social media ether.
Step up Agent Shaggy :rock:

Zapater 12-06-21 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious (Post 3718912)
Looks more like Tony Bellend, sorry Bellew, wearing a Liverpool FC top.

:haha: My thoughts exactly!

Jaco_Pastorious 12-06-21 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baitman (Post 3718920)
Agree on the bellwhiff similarity, and defo send it out into the social media ether.
Step up Agent Shaggy :rock:


If Bellend has a problem with that, I will meet him on the Grand Parade in Cork next Friday night. Street fight, Irish style :rock::rock:


Rematch three months later in Chavasse Park some random Saturday night at kicking out time, live on PPV :crackoff:

BG1973 12-06-21 08:31 PM

A lot of mixed messaging in that Tat.

Roboklopp 13-06-21 10:06 PM

Why’s he looks gay?

Shaggy 22-06-21 03:00 PM


Pablo 22-06-21 03:18 PM

Sounds to me like he's had the chat and been told he's back to 5th choice CB at best.

At the age he's at I can't blame him for moving in that scenario. Hopefully the funds raised from selling him, Williams and the likes of Wilson, Grujic etc will mean we can afford at least one more decent signing.

RedReet 22-06-21 03:18 PM

And the award for most predictable story of the summer goes to...

vlahka 22-06-21 03:19 PM

I'll be mighty pissed if we sell him instead of actually using him more often.

Shaggy 22-06-21 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo (Post 3720766)
Sounds to me like he's had the chat and been told he's back to 5th choice CB at best.

At the age he's at I can't blame him for moving in that scenario. Hopefully the funds raised from selling him, Williams and the likes of Wilson, Grujic etc will mean we can afford at least one more decent signing.

All a bit Football Manager but maybe selling Phillips (£10m?), Neco (£6m?), Grujic (£15m?), Wilson (£10m?) would pay for someone like that that Donyell Malen or summat :haha:

frank the tank 22-06-21 03:25 PM

people will be annoyed when he does really well for his new club. The thing is, the way Jurgen wants us to play, he probably isn't best suited to. I think he would be really effective coming off the bench to help see off teams at the closing stages of games - teams that like to throw it into big strikers in the box. But that is only going to be applicable to about 8 to 12 teams in the league, in games where we are protecting a one goal lead.

Having said all of that, i think it is a big risk starting the season with Virgil, Joe, Matip and Konate as our 4 center backs - with 3 of them coming back from long term injuries (and 2 of those 3 being made of wafer)

baitman 22-06-21 03:29 PM

Klopp out :sigh:

This will prove to be a mistake.

Pepe79 22-06-21 03:29 PM

Not sure how likely that Burnley link for Nat Phillips is


Fivex 22-06-21 03:30 PM

I think his price tag is north of £20m though.

Tribute 22-06-21 03:35 PM

Suggestions Kabak value decreased significantly due to lack of playing time in the Euros and Schalke will need to sell at a cut price, so if Nat goes for a decent wedge, Kabak could come in at a much lower price than originally touted...

Could be a smart move all round?

BobTheCharmer 22-06-21 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribute (Post 3720777)
Suggestions Kabak value decreased significantly due to lack of playing time in the Euros and Schalke will need to sell at a cut price, so if Nat goes for a decent wedge, Kabak could come in at a much lower price than originally touted...

Could be a smart move all round?

But kabak is a shit version of Nat but slightly quicker.

danperkins 22-06-21 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribute (Post 3720777)
Suggestions Kabak value decreased significantly due to lack of playing time in the Euros and Schalke will need to sell at a cut price, so if Nat goes for a decent wedge, Kabak could come in at a much lower price than originally touted...

Could be a smart move all round?


Hard to know as Philips looked better than Kabak imo. Can't really judge Kabak too much as haven't seen all that much of him.

Jaco_Pastorious 22-06-21 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danperkins (Post 3720781)
Hard to know as Philips looked better than Kabak imo. Can't really judge Kabak too much as haven't seen all that much of him.


Yeah and with Kabak being three years younger than Philips it is hard to know how good or not Kabak will be with the three years experience he will have by the time he gets to the age Philips is now.

On paper you would think that Kabak is the safer bet as his value will probably not drop lower than it is now and in a few years he could be quite a useful player, still younger than Philips is now and probably easy to make our money back on.

Whereas Philips has never been worth more than he is now and if he goes back to being fifth or sixth choice again for the coming season then his value will drop and he becomes a player heading towards turning 25 next spring but with not too many games to his name for his age.



Said this some time back about him and is still what I think of Philips.

Quote:

Think it is win win whether he stays or goes.

He stays and we have a 5th choice CB that whilst being a big drop off in quality from three, if not all four, of those ahead of him, can still come in and do a job if we are stuck.

He goes and we get a much bigger fee for him than we would have last summer. Any fee from 15m to 25m would not surprise me for him.

Pepe79 22-06-21 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious (Post 3720784)
Yeah and with Kabak being three years younger than Philips it is hard to know how good or not Kabak will be with the three years experience he will have by the time he gets to the age Philips is now.

On paper you would think that Kabak is the safer bet as his value will probably not drop lower than it is now and in a few years he could be quite a useful player, still younger than Philips is now and probably easy to make our money back on.

Whereas Philips has never been worth more than he is now and if he goes back to being fifth or sixth choice again for the coming season then his value will drop and he becomes a player heading towards turning 25 next spring but with not too many games to his name for his age.



Said this some time back about him and is still what I think of Philips.

Well youíd expect him to improve and still remain 3 years younger that Nat is :D. Heís already better and much more experienced at top flight and International level.

Jaco_Pastorious 22-06-21 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepe79 (Post 3720786)
Well youíd expect him to improve and still remain 3 years younger that Nat is :D. Heís already better and much more experienced at top flight and International level.



Worded it poorly, but basically meant that he will have three years more experience to his name before he reaches the age Philips is now and as such Kabak at 24 may well be a far more developed and first team ready player than Philips currently is at 24.

And yes I do agree with your opinion that Kabak is already a better and more experienced footballer.

Pepe79 22-06-21 04:52 PM

Ah yeah, see it now :handshake:

kev776 22-06-21 08:24 PM

It's a pointless discussion as both will leave. Both are way to slow to play Klopp's preferred high line football. Skills and positioning can be taught, natural speed can't and neither posses it.

VVD; Gomez, Matip and Konate are all kin quick.

Charly 22-06-21 09:57 PM

Big mistake to sell before we have confirmed Gomez, Matip and VVD are fit fore the start of the season.

Konate has not been injury free either. And as much as I love the guy, Matip has zero reliability.

Bump his wages and put in a release clause that triggers in the new year. If he gets no games he can move on, and if we still struggle with injuries he can stay on.

And he looked twice the player Kabak did. Kabak reminded me of a shite Lovren. I had no confidence when a ball came in that he was going to deal with it. The only times he looked okay were when he was next to Phillips. In fact I dont think that Rhys Williams looked any worse than Kabak.

Shaggy 22-06-21 11:46 PM

:D

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4hPGViW...png&name=small

Zapater 22-06-21 11:57 PM

I think it says a lot about the player that Burnley and Dyche are his chief admirers. I think £15m would represent good value.


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