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-   -   Roberto Firmino (https://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=87707)

Gingawaria 07-12-17 09:37 AM

12 goals and 6 assists so far this season - feels like Salah's exploits have really overshadowed Bobby's contributions.

He should finish the season with 20-25 goals if he carries on at this rate.

What a player!

Chris 07-12-17 10:25 AM

Yep, he’s been immense and one of the most unselfish attackers I’ve ever seen. Needs a new contract as that clause is looking a bit low right now!

Irishnev 07-12-17 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 3425217)
Yep, he’s been immense and one of the most unselfish attackers I’ve ever seen. Needs a new contract as that clause is looking a bit low right now!

??

danperkins 07-12-17 11:50 AM

Really impressive this season I must say.

Assassin 07-12-17 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishnev (Post 3425221)
??

45k a goal me finx

Zapater 07-12-17 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishnev (Post 3425221)
??

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...-a7458086.html

Quote:

The Brazil international, who arrived on Merseyside from Hoffenheim for £29m in the summer of 2015, has a €98m (£82.6m) release clause which can be triggered by any club except the Gunners.

foresterbloke 07-12-17 12:47 PM

Thing is, he wouldn't be half as effective in many other systems.

RedReet 07-12-17 12:51 PM

Bobby. :rock:

Irishnev 07-12-17 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapater (Post 3425251)

:handshake:

Tee 07-12-17 02:06 PM

Bobby Zidane :rock:

RedReet 07-12-17 02:15 PM

Bizou. :rock:

Rigadon 07-12-17 02:23 PM

Better than Pele

Rich 07-12-17 02:48 PM

He was great again last night, my reservations still stand BUT... the productivity of Salah makes it pretty moot.

danperkins 07-12-17 03:02 PM

Has my reservations too but credit where it is due.. the guy has really found that consistency and is putting up the numbers. Having players like Mane Salah and Phil in and around you must be amazing for any centre forward.

Tee 07-12-17 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedReet (Post 3425281)
Bizou. :rock:

:rock::rock:

RedReet 07-12-17 07:16 PM

Liverpool’s Roberto Firmino is the crown prince of intriguers


Some players merely impress. They parade their superior talents on a weekly basis to universal admiration and the only debate surrounding them is whether they are routinely excellent or comparable to a bygone great.

Then there are the others: the intriguers. My God I love the intriguers.

No-one disputes their class but each in their own divisive way is saddled with misinterpretation. According to deeply entrenched stereotype, Mesut Ozil is prone to anonymity, particularly in big games. Anthony Martial doesn’t care because he doesn’t smile, while Raheem Sterling struggles to finish his dinner. How strange then that these players persistently nail the stats, offering up startling numbers that suggest their influence is substantial; their contribution immense. It’s as if reality knows something that we don’t.

This is not, incidentally, a defence of such individuals and neither is it an attack on those who damn with back-handed compliment. Rather this is a celebration of the rare few who are so often undermined for exhibiting transcendence from one Saturday to the next. Long may they continue to confuse us. Long may they intrigue. Long may they make us dig a little deeper for a true appreciation of their merits because without them challenging us to think then football becomes one big reboot of a Hollywood blockbuster or throwaway pop.

If Ozil is the undisputed king of contradiction as regards to how he’s perceived to how he performs before our very eyes, then Liverpool’s Firmino is the crown prince. Here is a forward who is absolutely integral to his side’s offensive structure and threat yet is commonly an afterthought to Mane, Coutinho and Salah when opposition fans fear their back-line encountering the quartet. This is not due to the Brazilian being under-rated you understand: as previously stated nobody disputes his class. But doesn’t he have a tendency to blow hot and cold? From Liverpool’s key men isn’t he the likeliest to not turn up, sometimes to such an extent that his substitution on the hour mark reminds you that he was even participating at all?

At least that was the impression I used to have. Back in August I wrote for Tifo on players who have a proclivity to drift in and out of games and it was the 26 year old I used for my opening argument, stating that he, more than most of his peers, was guilty of executing impressive, isolated moments before vanishing for fifteen minute spells. In hindsight this was entirely remiss of me which now leaves roughly about a million more people to see the light.

Speak to any Red and they’ll soon put you right. They won’t mention the fact that Firmino boasts the second highest goals/assists combination in the Premier League. They won’t even point out that he has scored more Premier League goals than any other Liverpool player since his arrival in August 2015. Instead they’ll focus on the very aspects of his game that are erroneously considered flaws by those who usually watch Jurgen Klopp’s men in the pub, distracted by spilt pints and a ferocious debate on Brexit going off at a nearby table.

They will laud his relentless industry as he defends from the front in a multifaceted and complicated role that requires the end product of a number 9 but so much more besides. They will marvel at the intelligence of a player who Liverpool writer Henry Jackson assumes is the first name on the team-sheet. And they will praise to the rafters his selflessness on the ball and rabid pressing off it. Tifo’s red-in-residence Jack Lusby claims with certainty that Roberto Firmino is Jurgen Klopp’s ‘perfect player’ and considering the attributes just noted and the German’s ideology it is difficult to disagree with that assessment.

Yet for all his selfless mileage and integrality Firmino seems destined to remain under-appreciated in the great scheme of things which is fine, beyond the frustration, because he’s an intriguer: a player who rewards more on second glance than first. That second glance tells us that he is not Ringo in Liverpool’s Fab Four; the afterthought to Mane, Coutinho and Salah. He is John; he just doesn’t twist and shout about it.

https://www.tifofootball.com/feature...ce-intriguers/

fidget 07-12-17 07:51 PM

Bobby "John not Ringo" Zidane :rock:

RedReet 07-12-17 08:02 PM

:haha: :rock:

Tee 07-12-17 09:09 PM

The lad just oozes class, so good I think he will be in demand come the end of the season

Big-Red-Ed 07-12-17 10:31 PM

There is no doubt he has frustrated at times but my god he has put in some displays recently that have been off the scale brilliant. It's a long time since I have seen such a selfless striker who just makes everyone play better with his industry and considerable craft. Magnificent player.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Rigadon 07-12-17 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 3425295)
He was great again last night, my reservations still stand BUT... the productivity of Salah makes it pretty moot.


Quote:

Originally Posted by danperkins (Post 3425306)
Has my reservations too but credit where it is due.. the guy has really found that consistency and is putting up the numbers. Having players like Mane Salah and Phil in and around you must be amazing for any centre forward.

He’s good when others are playing well. But he does deserve credit :handshake:

Leyton388 07-12-17 11:15 PM

He's fantastic and the fact his signing come out of nowhere makes it even better.

RedReet 07-12-17 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigadon (Post 3425353)
He’s good when others are playing well. But he does deserve credit :handshake:

So like last year when Mane, Coutinho and Lallana all had their best seasons?

memzey 08-12-17 12:25 AM

The Brazilian Dirk Kuyt.

Tee 08-12-17 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memzey (Post 3425359)
The Brazilian Dirk Kuyt.

:shake:

He is another level to Dirk WTGOR

memzey 08-12-17 12:31 AM

Yeah all part of being Brazilian innit? I loved Dirk btw. That was not meant to be snide to him in any way. If every player played with as much heart and enthusiasm as he did we’d smash teams left and right.

Slinky Skills 08-12-17 12:40 AM

Ha ha! :haha:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8b5f23758c.jpg

Rigadon 08-12-17 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedReet (Post 3425355)
So like last year when Mane, Coutinho and Lallana all had their best seasons?

Sorry. Don’t understand.

BigChief 08-12-17 01:18 AM

That picture is fecking hilarious. :haha: Salah even looks like Messi in it. :jaw:

Tee 08-12-17 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memzey (Post 3425361)
Yeah all part of being Brazilian innit? I loved Dirk btw. That was not meant to be snide to him in any way. If every player played with as much heart and enthusiasm as he did we’d smash teams left and right.

True :handshake:

Slinky Skills 08-12-17 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 3425368)
That picture is fecking hilarious. :haha: Salah even looks like Messi in it. :jaw:

:haha:

danperkins 08-12-17 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slinky Skills (Post 3425362)

:haha::haha::haha:

PTP 08-12-17 11:34 AM

Coutinho looks like mickey from the monkees :haha:

RedReet 08-12-17 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigadon (Post 3425364)
Sorry. Don’t understand.

You are suggesting that it’s the other players making Firmino look good, that they are the reason he is playing well. The simplest way to refute that was to highlight that the players around him last year also played well (Mane, Phil, Lallana), yet Firmino was allegedly poor.

Admittedly that was a very simplistic, if not juvenile retort, so I’ve had a quick look at some stats for this season.

Obviously we have been chopping and changing the side a lot in recent weeks, but there has been little impact on results.
Firmino has been rested for 2 games:

Chelsea: 1-1
Newcastle: 1-1

I then looked at the games Sturridge started, meaning Firmino’s role changed:

Palace: 1-0
Burnley: 1-1
Newcastle: 1-1
Huddersfield: 3-0
Chelsea: 1-1

It’s also worth noting that although the 3-0 to Huddersfield looks good on paper, we really struggled to break them down and had to rely on a mistake from the Huddersfield defender to play Sturridge in and open the scoring in the second half (“Liverpool score when playing a striker, shocker” was one poster’s triumphant response when this 50th minute goal went in :D).

Our other game with a recognised CF playing was the Stoke win with Solanke playing. Again, this result was influence by some favourable officiating and it was only once Solanke went off that we scored the second and third goals.

There seems to be a bit of a pattern here, but I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.

Les Zeffelin 08-12-17 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memzey (Post 3425361)
Yeah all part of being Brazilian innit? I loved Dirk btw. That was not meant to be snide to him in any way. If every player played with as much heart and enthusiasm as he did we’d smash teams left and right.

:handshake: Dirk was very much under appreciated.

RedReet 08-12-17 11:52 AM

I also think if you looked at Coutino's goals scoring stats pre-Firmino and post-Firmino you'd see a drastic improvement, likewise with Lallana. Similarly with Mane and Salah, their outputs have improved playing alongside Firmino.

Not really worth checking the stats as there are too many other factors at play, such as Klopp's style, LFC being a better team etc, but again there is a bit of a pattern and none of them suggest that Firmino is holding his teammates back.

Phoenix07 08-12-17 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedReet (Post 3425396)
It’s also worth noting that although the 3-0 to Huddersfield looks good on paper, we really struggled to break them down and had to rely on a mistake from the Huddersfield defender to play Sturridge in and open the scoring in the second half (“Liverpool score when playing a striker, shocker” was one poster’s triumphant response when this 50th minute goal went in :D).

Our other game with a recognised CF playing was the Stoke win with Solanke playing. Again, this result was influence by some favourable officiating and it was only once Solanke went off that we scored the second and third goals.

There seems to be a bit of a pattern here, but I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.

It's a systematic thing. We play differently this season, with Mane and Salah meant to be the main attacking threats. Firmino is there to create the space. I've never been Firmino's biggest fan, but I can see his role in the side, and how complex it is.

Playing with a pure centre-forward would mean a slight change in style, and that's probably something that'd need to be worked on, but it'd be done very quickly.

RedReet 08-12-17 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix07 (Post 3425402)
It's a systematic thing. We play differently this season, with Mane and Salah meant to be the main attacking threats. Firmino is there to create the space. I've never been Firmino's biggest fan, but I can see his role in the side, and how complex it is.

Playing with a pure centre-forward would mean a slight change in style, and that's probably something that'd need to be worked on, but it'd be done very quickly.

Well that's an argument for another day but in the context of this discussion, that Firmino is relying on others to look good, it's plainly obvious that the opposite is true, chop and change around Firmino and there is little impact on our scoring record, but take Firmino out of the equation and our goal average drops considerably.

In fact, in the 8 games we’ve scored 1 or less this season, Firmino wasn’t playing up front in 50% of them and of the 4 he did, they were against Spartak (should have had 10), City (ruined by ref), United (11 men behind ball) and Spurs (No excuse, we were poor).

Harv 08-12-17 12:25 PM

Bob looks like a young Spock :haha:

Phoenix07 08-12-17 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedReet (Post 3425404)
Well that's an argument for another day but in the context of this discussion, that Firmino is relying on others to look good, it's plainly obvious that the opposite is true, chop and change around Firmino and there is little impact on our scoring record, but take Firmino out of the equation and our goal average drops considerably..

I deleted another paragraph from my post. :haha:


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