I read these posts on rawk, all by the same poster who regularly watched the academy and has a son who recently left Liverpool. I found the posts interesting but depressing at the same time. It's sad that we still appear to have a lack of quality coaching below the u18's and still appear to focus on physique more so than technical ability. The last post summed up why in England we are still light years behind countries like Spain, Brazil etc when it comes to developing technically gifted players.
It's the same at my school where I work, we've got a number of youngsters representing Forest and County at different age groups and if you were to watch them you would think to yourself "what is all the fuss about." If it weren't for their strength and pace they wouldn't stand out. You inevitably find out anyway when players who they once towered over start to develop physically themselves at which point the lack of technical skills becomes even more apparent. It's sad really because if the coaches across England spent more time developing players technical skills from the get go and not worry too much about a players height and strength, you would definitely see massive improvements.imo. I know people will say Kenny's here so things will change but it's easier said than done, espcially when you know this is the culture England have adopted for years and years.
It's the same at my school where I work, we've got a number of youngsters representing Forest and County at different age groups and if you were to watch them you would think to yourself "what is all the fuss about." If it weren't for their strength and pace they wouldn't stand out. You inevitably find out anyway when players who they once towered over start to develop physically themselves at which point the lack of technical skills becomes even more apparent. It's sad really because if the coaches across England spent more time developing players technical skills from the get go and not worry too much about a players height and strength, you would definitely see massive improvements.imo. I know people will say Kenny's here so things will change but it's easier said than done, espcially when you know this is the culture England have adopted for years and years.
All clubs have "golden" age groups, as currently the majority of lads in the U16's and below are pretty local, up to 1.5 hours, with the odd very talented exception (this is due to the current though changing rules on distance travelled by the lads). Everton, Chelsea and Utd have very good U13 teams, we have good lads in the U16's, however this changes next year when the lads become scholars and have to mix with the younger U18's and the new foreign lads who will arrive. While this doesn't diminish the talent it obviously affects the team dynamics.
From my time attending the academy regularly which ended when my lad moved to Blackburn (our choice after he was given a 2 year contract by Liverpool) none of the younger age groups which are now 11-15 were that great and there were no real stand out players. Indeed from the current U13's the two stand out strikers now play for Man Utd and Everton and shared all 5 goals when Utd beat Everton 3-2 last week. We played Liverpool two weeks ago and got beat 2-1 in a game we should of won, yet Everton who we play next week beat us 9-0 before xmas. Last year while still at Liverpool we went to Chelsea and got hammered 10-2.
Liverpool are excellent in the older academy age groups when we can buy talent from around the country to bolster the local lads, however the younger age groups suffer from poor coaching and even poorer local scouting, hopefully something that may eventually get fixed. Sadly they also suffer from an attitude that they are special and so players should want to play for them regardless of how they get treated, something many people have decided isn't what they want, hence the boys leaving.
Liverpool are excellent in the older academy age groups when we can buy talent from around the country to bolster the local lads, however the younger age groups suffer from poor coaching and even poorer local scouting, hopefully something that may eventually get fixed. Sadly they also suffer from an attitude that they are special and so players should want to play for them regardless of how they get treated, something many people have decided isn't what they want, hence the boys leaving.
You have Frankie McParland who is the Director, John Owens (who was there under Heighway) as Ops Manager, then you have Segura who develops the technical programmes for all the age groups from 9-18 (pre academy as well but not signed from 6-8). Borrell is purely the U18's coach, we never saw him at all in the time we were there, although Segura was there looking at the young lads most of the time and seemed a nice fella.
You then have Mike Garrity who is head of 6-11's (mini soccer) and Steve Cooper who is head of 12-16's. They then have minimum Uefa B coach running each age group with an assistant who is working towards that standard, all local lads, some ex academy players who never made it and some who are teachers, the vast majority are part time working 3-4 nights a week and a Sunday for games.
The scouting system, certainly locally has took a real hit recently with both Elias and Paul Johnson, who were senior guys on big money leaving and two local lads replacing them, in my opinion promoted above their level but both good lads.
I've supported the club since 74 so for me to move my lad when he had a contract until he was 15 and quite well thought of was a major decision, however I felt that he would have a better chance elsewhere which so far has proved a good move. Most parents understand that unless your lad is very special they won't make it at the major, money driven clubs, so must make decisions based on this fact. For most kids it is about maximising potential through good coaching, increased game time and the most opportunities.
You then have Mike Garrity who is head of 6-11's (mini soccer) and Steve Cooper who is head of 12-16's. They then have minimum Uefa B coach running each age group with an assistant who is working towards that standard, all local lads, some ex academy players who never made it and some who are teachers, the vast majority are part time working 3-4 nights a week and a Sunday for games.
The scouting system, certainly locally has took a real hit recently with both Elias and Paul Johnson, who were senior guys on big money leaving and two local lads replacing them, in my opinion promoted above their level but both good lads.
I've supported the club since 74 so for me to move my lad when he had a contract until he was 15 and quite well thought of was a major decision, however I felt that he would have a better chance elsewhere which so far has proved a good move. Most parents understand that unless your lad is very special they won't make it at the major, money driven clubs, so must make decisions based on this fact. For most kids it is about maximising potential through good coaching, increased game time and the most opportunities.
Don't like naming names, certainly for the younger lads as it is not fair, certainly on a public forum.
To be fair over the 5 years I have been watching academy football I think I have seen maybe 8-10 kids who you could say "wow, they will make it". Chelsea had one, Utd a couple and Everton who have a strong team but whether any are special I'm not sure. That includes watching all the older lads train most nights while at Liverpool for 4 years. Sterling stood out for his pace from the first time he trained with the then 15's and another lad who will be in the 15's this season looked a bit special.
Sadly most of the lads who play at this level are there to provide a team for the one or two each year who might have a chance at some level in the game. It is no coincidence that since academies were set up a decade or so ago the lower leagues including non leagues have a lot of technically gifted lads, rather than the hoofers you used to get. Most of these are ex academy lads who didn't make it.
To be fair over the 5 years I have been watching academy football I think I have seen maybe 8-10 kids who you could say "wow, they will make it". Chelsea had one, Utd a couple and Everton who have a strong team but whether any are special I'm not sure. That includes watching all the older lads train most nights while at Liverpool for 4 years. Sterling stood out for his pace from the first time he trained with the then 15's and another lad who will be in the 15's this season looked a bit special.
Sadly most of the lads who play at this level are there to provide a team for the one or two each year who might have a chance at some level in the game. It is no coincidence that since academies were set up a decade or so ago the lower leagues including non leagues have a lot of technically gifted lads, rather than the hoofers you used to get. Most of these are ex academy lads who didn't make it.
A mixed bag to be honest, they get better the older you get, however from talking to them most find it very frustrating that they basically get told exactly what to do during matches the day before by the head of age group even down to subs and positions.
An example was last year when we went to Derby and were 3-0 down by half time. The coach knew that the centre half was better in midfield but had been told not to play him there, however he made the change and we won 4-3. All the lads/parents were made up but the coach said he would get bollocked when he reported in, sure enough he did apparently. The coach who was experienced and a good lad left at the end of that year.
An example was last year when we went to Derby and were 3-0 down by half time. The coach knew that the centre half was better in midfield but had been told not to play him there, however he made the change and we won 4-3. All the lads/parents were made up but the coach said he would get bollocked when he reported in, sure enough he did apparently. The coach who was experienced and a good lad left at the end of that year.
Main improvement was a more pass and move style of play both in training and during matches and from what I have heard from people still there they play far more football in training since Dalglish has had more influence.
El Matador - I agree with what you are saying almost entirely regarding how and where players are played, the point I was making is that coaches from the conversations I have had, feel they need to have flexibility to make decisions on the ground in order to affect games, otherwise they feel useless and move on. My lads U10, U11 and U12 coaches all left Liverpool at the end of that season, all were quite experienced and all left under less than friendly circumstances. Not great for continuity, especially when in this country we only have a finite number of sufficiently qualified coaches.
Winning is important believe me and not just with the players/parents but also the coaches at all levels, rightly or wrongly, as evidenced on numerous occasions in conversations and responses I have seen.
My lad played at a Premier League U14 tournament at the London Soccerdome at the weekend, in effect playing a year above himself, that was won by Chelsea who defeated Arsenal in the final, you would not believe the size of the players involved in this tournament. My son's comments after losing 1-0 to Fulham were "wow dad, some of those lads had beards". Whatever ****e gets spouted by the likes of Trevor Brooking and his FA cronies, size does matter at academies certainly in the age groups under 16, when players can't be bought. Why is this? Because games are won by the team with the biggest, generally very athletic and generally black players (apologies if that sounds racist in any way it is not meant to). That is the reality of academy football in this country, including Liverpool both pre and post Segeura and Borrell.
Liverpool continue to scout big lads at the expense of smaller more talented ones, here is an example from last year. Under Seguera, the lads were assessed a couple of times a year on things like keepy ups, shooting accuracy, dribbling in and out of cones and other skill based assessments, with one small but feisty lad getting near the top in most areas. The lad was gone however within months as he wasn't getting games because he wasn't big enough. Sad but true. In the same time span we had two very big lads and I mean big, one of whom had a six pack and the build of a middleweight boxer at 11, the other marginally smaller, who to be fair were technically awful, nowhere near academy standard, however had pace and scored goals. I spoke to the lad who scouted them and after a bit of banter he admitted that they were just hoping they could develop some touch in time, which is indicative of the approach taken by all clubs in this country.
While I am highlighting a lot of negatives, in general Liverpool is one of the best academies out there and we all loved our time there. We don't go to the lengths some clubs go to with regards size and try to coach the lads to play the game in the correct way, however don't think that since the new regime took over we have suddenly become Barcelona at all levels because from my experience we haven't.
Winning is important believe me and not just with the players/parents but also the coaches at all levels, rightly or wrongly, as evidenced on numerous occasions in conversations and responses I have seen.
My lad played at a Premier League U14 tournament at the London Soccerdome at the weekend, in effect playing a year above himself, that was won by Chelsea who defeated Arsenal in the final, you would not believe the size of the players involved in this tournament. My son's comments after losing 1-0 to Fulham were "wow dad, some of those lads had beards". Whatever ****e gets spouted by the likes of Trevor Brooking and his FA cronies, size does matter at academies certainly in the age groups under 16, when players can't be bought. Why is this? Because games are won by the team with the biggest, generally very athletic and generally black players (apologies if that sounds racist in any way it is not meant to). That is the reality of academy football in this country, including Liverpool both pre and post Segeura and Borrell.
Liverpool continue to scout big lads at the expense of smaller more talented ones, here is an example from last year. Under Seguera, the lads were assessed a couple of times a year on things like keepy ups, shooting accuracy, dribbling in and out of cones and other skill based assessments, with one small but feisty lad getting near the top in most areas. The lad was gone however within months as he wasn't getting games because he wasn't big enough. Sad but true. In the same time span we had two very big lads and I mean big, one of whom had a six pack and the build of a middleweight boxer at 11, the other marginally smaller, who to be fair were technically awful, nowhere near academy standard, however had pace and scored goals. I spoke to the lad who scouted them and after a bit of banter he admitted that they were just hoping they could develop some touch in time, which is indicative of the approach taken by all clubs in this country.
While I am highlighting a lot of negatives, in general Liverpool is one of the best academies out there and we all loved our time there. We don't go to the lengths some clubs go to with regards size and try to coach the lads to play the game in the correct way, however don't think that since the new regime took over we have suddenly become Barcelona at all levels because from my experience we haven't.
pulled him to one side and said you won't make it because you are not tall enough.....another lad in our school......was ****e....but like 6ft when he was 12, went and played for tranmere and went right through the acadamy etc...
Comment